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There is a significant amount of admixture in Africa so to say someone is African is not always meaningful. Certain ethnic groups such as Fulanis, Tauregs, Igbos, etc. are known to have non-African (Arab or Jewish blood) and recently ethnic groups have started intermarrying to high degrees. And of course there are many "Africans" who are biracial such as former Ghanaian president Jerry Rawlings.
Oh really:
http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/massive_study_of_african_genet/tishkoff_africa_map.jpg (broken link) Tishkoff 2009 which is the largest genetic study of Africans and African Americans in history. Look at the table of each West African ethnic groups ancestoral components and tell us where is the non African admixture in any of the populations that you listed? THERE IS NONE. You shouldn't open your moth about thing that you don't know **** about.
Black Africans (tropical Africans) have the most indigenous physical and genetic variability on Earth. As far as your assertions on our skin color only being pitch black goes:
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"Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits have found higher levels of within-population diversity in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. This study examines regional differences in within-population diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe, West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australasia, and the New World. Regional differences in local within-population diversity were examined using two measures of variability: the sample variance and the sample coefficient of variation.For both measures, the average level of within-population diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other geographic regions.This difference persists even after adjusting for a correlation between within-population diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits."
-- Relethford JH.(2000). Human skin color diversity is highest in sub-Saharan African populations. Hum Biol. 2000 Oct;72(5):773-80.)
One reason why many African Americans may be quick to tell you that you are "black" and not Italian is simply because it's almost a known fact that many many Italians are very racist against black people. That being said while your Italian admixture may be marveled at by some in the African American community, your African blood will be reviled in the Italian community.
Ah....no, the opposite has actually held true. Granted, some Americanized Italians are racist, but every single person from Italy I've met don't have anything against blacks. I grew up around Italians and blacks, and the Italians never had any problem when I said I'm both, but the blacks? They get up in arms.
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Now this is very interesting IMO. That's the thing about some mixed race people with your "issue" that I'm beginning to notice. As soon as one of those racist in the Italian community who you so want to identify with, shuns you in a racist way for trying to be one of them, then who do you run to? Who accepts you fully and strikes back at the racist? That's right the black community!
If some racist guido gets in my face, he's a racist prick, and most people assume as such. If a racist black person gets in my face...people shrug and I'm on my own and if I say something against him, I'm attacking "my brother."
I've had to deal with racism from both sides, as have most mixed people, and that is what you can't say out loud in America. Varies people in Europe are racist, including against people of mixed blood, we all know this and its talked about...blacks can also be just as racist, including against people of mixed blood, but it's only amongst us mixed people that we talk about it. Why is that?
Why is it okay for blacks to be racist? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Tishkoff 2009 which is the largest genetic study of Africans and African Americans in history. Look at the table of each West African ethnic groups ancestoral components and tell us where is the non African admixture in any of the populations that you listed? THERE IS NONE. You shouldn't open your moth about thing that you don't know **** about.
Black Africans (tropical Africans) have the most indigenous physical and genetic variability on Earth. As far as your assertions on our skin color only being pitch black goes:
You're not familiar with statistics are you? How can there be absolutely no European admixture in Africa when she just told you about Jerry Rawlings who is clearly of mixed race? Oh and are you going to tell me the Coloureds in South Africa don't exist?
When did you become the arbiter of racial classification? If you don't want to be considered ONLY black, so be it. Call yourself whatever you want, and move on. But, you have no right to berate others of mixed background for choosing to be black, regardless of their appearance. Perhaps they have reasons for their decision, just as you feel compelled to wear your heritage on your sleeve. If you want others to respect your opinion, you should likewise, learn to respect the opinions of others.
You can't decide your DNA or your family. If a mixed person was to identify as only white, he or she would be a laughing stock, but if they say he's all black, even though he or she has dirty brown hair and is lighter than the average Greek and is clearer not all black, people are okay with that.
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How is Obama a "sellout" to biracial people? Moreover, had he actually denied his multiracial heritage, his black father/white mother would not be common knowledge.
In that very same 2010 census, you could pick more than one race. So, instead of standing in solidarity with the other mixed people, many of whom faced discrimination from both blacks and whites or Asian and blacks or whatever, he choose "black." I checked off black and white, as amongst whites I'm seen as mixed or black and amongst blacks I'm seen as "that damn mutt" or "what the hell are you doing in this neighborhood? Why don't you go back to Puerto Rico?"
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Why is it okay for you to self-identify, but not Obama or others?
I am mixed, that is how I identify. People should be honest with themselves.
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Both my biracial mother and son self-identify as black. As do millions of others of similar racial backgrounds. In fact, they NEVER refer to themselves as biracial, and certainly not mulatto. Please. Why should they? Is there an unwritten law that requires one to broadcast their racial heritage? Furthermore, who gives a damn, other than those obsessed by race? That doesn't mean they are denying their white heritage. It simply means, in their opinion, it's no big deal.
When you go to a black church and get asked what the hell are you doing there, when you have people yelling "Mexican" at you from the car as you walk by, when you have "sisters" hissing at you and calling you "high yellow bougie b***" and when you have ten times the drama as blacks when you need an organ or tissue donor, you are not black...and when you know you would have been a slave or forced into segregated housing and schools, you are not white.
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My mother's maternal grandparents were German immigrants, who disowned their daughter for daring to fall in love with a black man. They were so consumed by bigotry they didn't even attend her funeral, despite being their ONLY child. Nor did they ever care to see any of their 6 adorable grandchildren. Who doesn't want to be in their grandchildren's lives, other than the most rabid racists? So, why would my mother feel any connection to them? But, the joke was on them, because most of their "tainted" grandchildren look white. One even chose to live in the white world, and deny her black heritage, which is sad, but certainly her prerogative.
I spent a lot of time with my grandfather. On his death bed he told me stories of growing up in America being barely ever to speak the language and how mean people were to him. He told me to be proud of my heritage...so, why should I say I am not a part of that?
Wouldn't it be sad if I or someone like me choose to live in the black world and deny my Italian heritage and wouldn't it be just as sad as if a mixed person lived in the white world?
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I find it beyond hilarious that suddenly, with the presidency of Obama, the classification of people of black/white parentage is now such an issue. Now, he isn't black, he's only half black; whereas, for hundreds of years, he would have simply been black. As for Obama, if we didn't know he had a white mother, no one would assume such. In fact, he looks like countless other black men whose parents are both black. Yet, he's a sellout for daring to self-identify as black. Give me a break.
A hundred years ago, in Haiti, he would have had his head chopped off by his "black brothers" for being a mulatto. Today, in South Africa, the Zulus and other tribes would kill him if he stepped food in their neighborhood, because he's a coloured and therefore not African.
Obama is lucky in that his father was pure African, and hence he came out looking pretty black. My father was not, and hence I came out looking clearly neither black nor white, as most mulattoes do. In America, we have to deal with a black community that only accepts us with we go out of our way to be black and even then it's hard, and we can't mention that we are proud of any part of us other than the black part...or else.
My friend is half black half Korean, and a lot of Koreans don't like he and blacks have called her "chinky b***" more times than she can remember.
The idea that blacks can be just as racist as any other group is a hard pill for blacks to swallow. After all that discrimination and hatred, blacks are now dishing out the same hatred and discrimination. The Civil Rights movement should have ended with a warning from Nietzsche:
"Be careful when you fight monsters, least you become a monster. Stare into the abyss long enough, and the abyss stares back."
That is indeed very true. I've read that a lot of why black Americans look so different from Africans isn't just that they're non-African admixture, but also that they're mixed of so many different kinds of African.
The Khoisan people tend to be lighter, as are the Igbo of Nigeria.
Excellent point I recall when Tiger Woods first came out how desperate African Americans wanted to claim him. Despite him being very clear about what he considered his identity to be.
Thanks for pointing that out. Tiger Woods said he's black, white and Asian and all of a sudden blacks came out condemning him. Why? I mean, he didn't deny he was black, he just acknowledged that he was black and white and Asian. Did the Asians flip out? No, because he's mixed and that's that. Did the whites flip out? No, because he's mixed and that's that. But the blacks? Suddenly Woods is an "uncle Tom blah blah blah".
Clear example of the crap the "Afro-Aryans" put on mixed people, and a clear example that blacks are not nearly as accepting of mixed blacks as they would have you believe.
Indeed. However Obama is smart and knew he would not be elected if he claimed what he truly is and/or hadn't married a black woman (see political suicide of Harold Ford Jr.). At the end of the day Obama has been to Kenya and he knows that he is neither Kenyan nor black. He's smart enough to have figured that out and also smart enough to label himself as necessary to gain political power.
It is so true that if Obama had married a white woman, he wouldn't have been elected. First of all, the ADS: "Barack Obama...he'll take your job, your guns, and worst of all, your white girlfriend! I'm John McCain, and I approve this message."
And second, if the first viable Presidential nominee of black descent was married to a white woman, he would loose the black female vote by the biggest margin ever. Black women would have voted Republican just out of spite, because there was another black man who thinks he's "too good" for black women.
Funny thing is, I'm blacker than Obama. At the end of the day, he didn't grow up around blacks, never really was a part of black America and his father is from Kenya, and that isn't even the same part of Africa that most black Americans came from. Not to mention that my black ancestors got to America in the bottom of a slave ship, while his father? Oh, he flew to Hawaii in first class.
good for you! when you get stopped by the cops or followed in a store i guess you can still go with that theory
ROFL!! Now that's the real-life test for being black in America. By and large, people will treat you based on how they see you and people who look like you, not on how you see yourself.
My family immigrated from Lithuania in the early 1900's. I dont call myself a lithuanian american, I call myself white. If someone asks about my heritage I tell them my family came from Lithuania.
Why cant we keep things simple...your black. If someone wants to know your background tell them you have African roots. There are many blacks that do not have an African background, would they be African American...no.
What is this such big deal?
I think the whole essense is why does he have to call himself what someone else thinks he should.
For instance, I have a friend who is half Sioux and half Cree. Dad's family didn't exactly welcome mom with open arms since the Cree were considered 'inferior' but they stayed with dad's family at least. Then he moved and joined the military and doesn't even call himself native american anymore. Just American. Nor does his family. His family still speaks, but barely. To his brother, he betrayed the culture.
But we get a choice and he took his own. Just as the OP chooses to not call himself Black.
It would be like if someone told me I really didn't have any 'real' irish ancestors since they all came from the north. Probably some and four hundred years ago came from Scotland, but if I want to think of them as Irish generations later, I will. I prefer not to say I'm Irish/Scots/English, or white, but just human. My identity is as an out of the box, intellectual, creatively inspired human. Personally I'd rather hang around with people who can get that no matter where their DNA came from.
Personally I think the OP is perfectly ok for choosing his own identity. Nobody, black white or martian can tell him he's wrong... Just as they may choose for themselves.
Tishkoff 2009[/url] which is the largest genetic study of Africans and African Americans in history. Look at the table of each West African ethnic groups ancestoral components and tell us where is the non African admixture in any of the populations that you listed? THERE IS NONE. You shouldn't open your moth about thing that you don't know **** about.
Black Africans (tropical Africans) have the most indigenous physical and genetic variability on Earth. As far as your assertions on our skin color only being pitch black goes:
1. This is a 102 page document. If you want to refer to a table at least mention a page number.
2. I know that Africans have the highest genetic diversity on the planet. Honestly the rest of the world is relatively inbred compared to us. That doesn't mean that there is a significant percent of light skinned individuals indigenous to West Africa.
3. There is no need for you to curse.
4. I do know quite a deal about West African ethnic groups but most of it is not founded in science. It's founded in my knowledge of migrations passed down to me at school and by elders. One of them is my father who is a professor of African studies. Scientific numbers and studies usually confirm the oral history that Europeans choose not to listen to.
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Why should they? Is there an unwritten law that requires one to broadcast their racial heritage? Furthermore, who gives a damn, other than those obsessed by race? That doesn't mean they are denying their white heritage. It simply means, in their opinion, it's no big deal.
