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Old 06-06-2013, 04:29 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,112 posts, read 9,070,279 times
Reputation: 2084

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
How can freedom be defined as one part of the population controlling another's behavior?



How?
What do you mean "how?" The free market means no regulation of bussiness. A law that bans child labor is regulation of business - nothing more, nothing less. Slavery is a more of a grey area. However, historically advocates of slavery made the same "free market" property rights arguments that conservatives make for the issues of today. However, if you're asking how then you don't even know the definition of the free market.. And yet you're advocating it.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:53 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,971,219 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
What do you mean "how?" The free market means no regulation of bussiness. A law that bans child labor is regulation of business - nothing more, nothing less. Slavery is a more of a grey area. However, historically advocates of slavery made the same "free market" property rights arguments that conservatives make for the issues of today. However, if you're asking how then you don't even know the definition of the free market.. And yet you're advocating it.
No, I know precisely what I'm talking about and what a "free market" is.

I asked you "How?" because SLAVERY is not a free market idea at all. Slavery does not exist unless there is either physical force, or government to enforce it, granting ownership and enforcement of ownership of human beings to other human beings. Which has almost nothing to do with the concept of free enterprise or free markets. Free markets, by definition, exist when there is neither physical or political pressure or force used to alter the behavior of people in matters of trade with each other, where no party is compelled by any external force to do or behave in ways that they would not otherwise. Free enterprise is similar in concept, in that one is free to find ways to produce things of value, provide services of value without artificial barriers or restraints placed upon them by force or law.

NONE of that has anything to do with slavery. Slavery is sustained by government forcibly violating natural human rights.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:00 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,971,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
What do you mean "how?" The free market means no regulation of bussiness. A law that bans child labor is regulation of business - nothing more, nothing less.
No, child labor laws are prohibitions upon either a child, or the people responsible for him, choosing to work at less than an arbitrarily chosen age. Nothing more, nothing less than the government regulating an individual's personal choices.

Quote:
Slavery is a more of a grey area. However, historically advocates of slavery made the same "free market" property rights arguments that conservatives make for the issues of today. However, if you're asking how then you don't even know the definition of the free market.. And yet you're advocating it.
I answered this above, but I want to emphasize that slavery is GOVERNMENT GRANTING TITLE OF ONE HUMAN TO ANOTHER AND ENFORCING IT.

It has nothing to do with "free markets" and everything to do with a government choosing to violate the rights of some for the benefit of others. It is PRECISELY the same as "tax the rich to give to the poor".
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:47 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,112 posts, read 9,070,279 times
Reputation: 2084
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
No, child labor laws are prohibitions upon either a child, or the people responsible for him, choosing to work at less than an arbitrarily chosen age. Nothing more, nothing less than the government regulating an individual's personal choices.



I answered this above, but I want to emphasize that slavery is GOVERNMENT GRANTING TITLE OF ONE HUMAN TO ANOTHER AND ENFORCING IT.

It has nothing to do with "free markets" and everything to do with a government choosing to violate the rights of some for the benefit of others. It is PRECISELY the same as "tax the rich to give to the poor".
I guess laws regulating business are regarding "personal choices" whenever you personally see fit.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:44 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,971,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
I guess laws regulating business are regarding "personal choices" whenever you personally see fit.
Can you explain this?
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:47 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,971,219 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
I guess laws regulating business are regarding "personal choices" whenever you personally see fit.
BTW, until the 30's the US, the ECONOMIC natural rights of a person were considered to be equal in standing to freedom of speech, etc. It wasn't until Roosevelt packed the court and set the stage to massively violate individual economic freedoms that the idea that somehow individual economic rights aren't really rights, but merely something for majorities to decide for an individual.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:54 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,112 posts, read 9,070,279 times
Reputation: 2084
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
BTW, until the 30's the US, the ECONOMIC natural rights of a person were considered to be equal in standing to freedom of speech, etc. It wasn't until Roosevelt packed the court and set the stage to massively violate individual economic freedoms that the idea that somehow individual economic rights aren't really rights, but merely something for majorities to decide for an individual.
Use your brain. The rights of business entities are not the same thing as the rights of the individual.. Individuals work for these businesses and deserve to be treated fairly.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:16 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,971,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
Use your brain. The rights of business entities are not the same thing as the rights of the individual.. Individuals work for these businesses and deserve to be treated fairly.
Absolutely, unquestionably NOT TRUE.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,535 posts, read 30,269,957 times
Reputation: 6426
Agreed. If employers follow all federal and state laws concerning the work place including health, sanitation, safety, and breaks, pay employees at least a minimum wage (there are exceptions), and pay the various taxes, licenses, rents, file monthly reports, withholding, etc., they have met all requirements to conduct business. There are laws concerning how an employee may or may not be treated such as touching the employee or sexual harassment. Fairness is subjective,


Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
Absolutely, unquestionably NOT TRUE.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:52 AM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,112 posts, read 9,070,279 times
Reputation: 2084
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
Agreed. If employers follow all federal and state laws concerning the work place including health, sanitation, safety, and breaks, pay employees at least a minimum wage (there are exceptions), and pay the various taxes, licenses, rents, file monthly reports, withholding, etc., they have met all requirements to conduct business. There are laws concerning how an employee may or may not be treated such as touching the employee or sexual harassment. Fairness is subjective,
ummm... What? So you agree with me..

That's a long list of regulations of business you support. You even support sanitation laws. And these are all laws that are against the "free market" and Pnwk is saying are against individual liberty..
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