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By that logic, there are a lot of people, probably millions - who on paper are Christian, but they are in now way shape or form Christian. About 76% of Americans claim to be Christians. Are they? Could they articulate what makes them Christian. In name and on paper, all Mexicans are Catholic. Are they all Christians?
For centuries, Catholics were the only Christians around This is absolutely, completely and totally wrong. Please do some research before making any more comments like this. Here's a starter for you: The Eastern Orthodox Church...
Until Martin Luther started the reformation. Minor detail, but the Reformation was going to happen with - or without - Martin Luther. In fact, the stage was set before he got involved. Truth is, the Gutenberg Printing Press had as much (or more) to do with the Reformation than did Martin Luther.
The movement was a protest against the Catholic church and its excesses - that's why the alternative Christians became known as Protestants. This is basically true, although there were millions of Christians OUTSIDE the RCC. Always have been.
Are people really this incredibly ignorant? No, but you obviously are.
You obviously know the Jack Chick version pretty well. Which makes you not merely ignorant, but deluded.
Are you really going to try this again? Throwing petty insults at somebody who knows more about your Church than you do? Not a wise move.
So here's one for you to work on (if you dare): Can you tell me why there were all those Popes & Antipopes during the Western Schism - sometimes 3 Popes at one time, and all of the claiming to be THE Pope? Sink your teeth into THAT one for awhile!
Are you really going to try this again? Throwing petty insults at somebody who knows more about your Church than you do? Not a wise move.
So here's one for you to work on (if you dare): Can you tell me why there were all those Popes & Antipopes during the Western Schism - sometimes 3 Popes at one time, and all of the claiming to be THE Pope? Sink your teeth into THAT one for awhile!
Oh, please, as if you really care about the answer.
The question itself proves your astounding ignorance. "Sometimes 3 Popes at one time"??? Really? Gee, there are more than three men today claiming to be pope! One in Kansas, one in Montana, and one in Spain in addition to the real Pope in Rome. And it proves absolutely nothing.
The signs are everywhere. From the boldly anti-Catholic HHS mandate that would have been unthinkable just ten years ago, to the rash of church vandalisms in California, the the forced closing of Catholic social agencies in Massachusetts and Illinois, to the silencing of Catholic chaplains in the U.S. military, to the explosion of hate crimes in Europe, etc. etc. - anti-Catholicism, it seems, is furiously on the rise.
85% of hate crimes in Europe against Christians
The subtext behind liberal modernity - sometimes conscious, sometimes unconscious - has always been that of rebellion against the Catholic Church. That rebellion is entering its full bloom. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
On a related note, the epic film "For Greater Glory" opened in the United States yesterday. Don't miss it.
A) I take it in MA and IL you are talking about catholic charities adoption CHOICE to close their doors. I want to make clear to some Catholics out there what really happened because EWTN and Cardinals seem to have a alternative reality. The State of IL and MA was giving Catholic Charities millions of dollars to fund the church to do adoptions.
When the church refused to adopt to gay/lesbian couples the State withdrew the funding. But here is the main point. It was never stated that the Catholic Charities could not adopt on their own! That's right! They just would not get State funds. They could continue to adopt and discriminate against gays/lesbians on the basis of their faith, but they would not get State funds. They (the church) made the choice to shut down adoptions when it was made clear they would not be getting State funds.
B) The human traffic issue, where the Catholic church was providing services to those effected by human trafficking. I fist want to give you all a hypothetical. Many Hindu's are vegetarian. Let's say that a Hindu based company is contracted to provide meals for our military. Is it then within the rights of that Hindu based company to say "sorry we have morals and as such we can not serve chicken, beef or any meat to the military"? If that Hindu company is eliminated from providing meals to our military on this basis, is it then religious discrimination? The simple fact is that the Catholic church was not willing to any abortions. Some of the victims of human trafficking are as young as 13 and have been sexually abused by family members so abortion is something that must be on the table. The Catholic church was not willing to meet these obligations and as such was eliminated from providing services to the victims.
But I have to hand it to you Catholics and Christians. You are really getting good at playing the victims, even if your facts are twisted and just outright wrong.
[b][u]When the church refused to adopt to gay/lesbian couples the State withdrew the funding. But here is the main point. It was never stated that the Catholic Charities could not adopt on their own! That's right! They just would not get State funds. They could continue to adopt and discriminate against gays/lesbians on the basis of their faith, but they would not get State funds. They (the church) made the choice to shut down adoptions when it was made clear they would not be getting State funds.
A faith has the right to do what they feel is best.
Government pressure caused the retreat of charity.
Keep your fingers out of the Church's affairs and more good will be done than not.
A) I take it in MA and IL you are talking about catholic charities adoption CHOICE to close their doors. I want to make clear to some Catholics out there what really happened because EWTN and Cardinals seem to have a alternative reality. The State of IL and MA was giving Catholic Charities millions of dollars to fund the church to do adoptions.
When the church refused to adopt to gay/lesbian couples the State withdrew the funding. But here is the main point. It was never stated that the Catholic Charities could not adopt on their own! That's right! They just would not get State funds. They could continue to adopt and discriminate against gays/lesbians on the basis of their faith, but they would not get State funds. They (the church) made the choice to shut down adoptions when it was made clear they would not be getting State funds.
In Illinois, no organization can place children in foster care without a state contract. Catholic Charities could not contract with the state unless they complied with a policy that amounts to state-mandated child abuse. So to claim this was merely a funding requirements dispute is disingenuous.
You're right about adoption work, technically, but state funding was essential to the Catholic Charities' adoption services and therefore it was forced by necessity to close. There are Christian private agencies doing this already at much greater expense and higher costs for adoptive parents. Why should the Church compete with them? The Church isn't in it for the money. The bottom line is that the state of Illinois deliberately forced Catholics out of its foster care and adoption programs knowing full well that the Church could not comply with the state's evil demands.
B) The human traffic issue, where the Catholic church was providing services to those effected by human trafficking. I fist want to give you all a hypothetical. Many Hindu's are vegetarian. Let's say that a Hindu based company is contracted to provide meals for our military. Is it then within the rights of that Hindu based company to say "sorry we have morals and as such we can not serve chicken, beef or any meat to the military"? If that Hindu company is eliminated from providing meals to our military on this basis, is it then religious discrimination? The simple fact is that the Catholic church was not willing to any abortions. Some of the victims of human trafficking are as young as 13 and have been sexually abused by family members so abortion is something that must be on the table. The Catholic church was not willing to meet these obligations and as such was eliminated from providing services to the victims.
In other words:
Dear Catholics,
We won't let you help people unless you're willing to kill unborn babies and morally corrupt orphans.
This is what we call freedom.
Love,
America
As for your analogy with Hinduism, this is a good example of how the sickness of Secularism leads to more evil in the world. Eating meat is not wrong.Killing unborn babies is wrong. If the state is unwilling to make such elementary moral distinctions because it's hamstrung by a secularist ideology and doesn't want to be perceived as partial to Christianity, many will suffer needlessly.
Last edited by Charles45; 06-03-2012 at 12:37 AM..
In Illinois, no organization can place children in foster care without a state contract. Catholic Charities could not contract with the state unless they complied with a policy that amounts to state-mandated child abuse. So to claim this was merely a funding requirements dispute is disingenuous.
You're right about adoption work, technically, but state funding was essential to the Catholic Charities' adoption services and therefore it was forced by necessity to close. There are Christian private agencies doing this already at much greater expense and higher costs for adoptive parents. Why should the Church compete with them? The Church isn't in it for the money. The bottom line is that the state of Illinois deliberately forced Catholics out of its foster care and adoption programs knowing full well that the Church could not comply with the state's evil demands.
That is not true. It has been stated time and again that the Church CAN do adoptions but will not get State funds to do it.
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