Why don't people recognize homophobia is as wrong as racism? (wages, salary)

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

Thank you for not only defining, but also personally demonstrating bigotry.

Bigotry is rooted in false beliefs. It is a fact that men do not have vaginas. You might want to go to your local university and enroll in an anatomy course.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

Homosexuality is not the same as the things you listed and your attitude regarding homosexuality is therefore based on a false belief.

Homosexuality is abnormal. What part of that do you not understand?

You might also want to enroll in some philosophy course at your local university, since you're lacking in that discipline as well.

Just because one can do something, it does not logically follow that one ought to do something.

You can stick a fork in your eye. Is sticking a fork in your eye something that you ought to do? Why not?

Just because someone can have sex with an animal, it doesn't mean they should. Just because someone can have sex with a dead person doesn't mean they should do that either. Just because a paraphilia can have sex with a pre-pubescent child doesn't mean they ought. Just because a pedophile can have sex with an infant doesn't mean they should do that. And just because two people of the same sex can engage in sex, doesn't mean they ought to do that either.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

You're equating homosexuality between two consenting adults to physical and sexual abuse? Seriously? Bigoted much?

Yes, because those things are abnormal.

And the comparison is quite valid. One thing I learned from interviewing sexual predators during the course of criminal investigations is that sexual predators, in the same manner as homosexuals, refuses to see their behavior as abnormal.

A pedophile or paraphile sees their behavior as completely normal. In fact, they saw me as being abnormal, because I find the mere thought of having sex with a young child, or very young child disturbing.

Same with [true] rapists. If you are not raping people, they consider you to be the abnormal one, because they see rape as a perfectly normal and natural course of action.

So in what way are you different? Well, you're not, because you see your sexual behavior as normal, just like they do.

You might want to take a zoology course too at your local university, so that you can study evolution in great detail. And when you do, you will see that every single life form on Planet Earth that has existed, that exists now, and that will exist in the future has one function and one function only, and that is to reproduce to perpetuate the species and ensure its future existence.

And then you will come to understand that homosexuality is abnormal, because it is anathema to life itself -- it is anti-life, and completely contrary to the purpose and function of human existence, as well as the existence of all life forms on Earth (including plants).

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

Sexual abuse and physical abuse are so common that they're not that abnormal, from a statistical point of view.

Statistics are irrelevant, and commonality has no bearing on what is normal or abnormal.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

What makes them abnormal from a psychological point of view, and worthy of being intolerant of, is the fact that there is a party involved that is not consenting, and that is being directly harmed....

Total fail.

Consent is irrelevant. If people consent to being robbed and murdered, then does that make robbery and murder normal? Does it make it a "victimless crime?"

What is wrong, is always wrong. What is abnormal is always abnormal, and the fact the someone consents to abnormal behavior does not make it normal, nor does it make it right or justifiable.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

There is extensive research showing that people suffer severe psychological adverse effects from sexual and physical abuse.

If you lump in homosexuality together with sexual abuse, you're basically lumping sex and rape together. Are you unable to tell the difference between consensual sex and rape, or is this only the case in regards to homosexuality?

Again, not relevant. Homosexuality is abnormal. We group things by their basic characteristics, and homosexuality, zoophilia/bestiality, necrophilia, pedophilia, paraphilia and rape are all abnormal actions.

If two consenting adults agree to commit a crime, it is still a crime and their behavior is still abnormal, regardless.

Even though homosexuality is abnormal, I'm not willing to treat it on the same level as criminal act. Homosexuality, like religion, should be kept in the bedroom, if you want to engage in abnormal behavior.

Originally Posted by GTK473

This forum is infested with homophobes.

Labeling people who disagree with your point of view as homophobes is not very becoming.
gious people. Where does it stop. Are we all to be boring carbon copies of each other.[/quote]

Originally Posted by GTK473

I've noticed that too. I think some posters/groups are using this as a public forum to spread their hatred.

And where have you seen hatred? Disagreement is not hatred. I know homosexuals are running the standard liberal playbook, but that falls short in the face of facts.

I'm on record as suggesting that the "homeless" (snicker) should be lined up and shot, or at the very least, stripped of citizenship, given $10, a brown-bag lunch, a parachute and have their goat-smelling assess kicked out the back door of a C-130 on a drag run over Somalia or Afghanistan or some other hell-hole (and given the chance I would do exactly that).

I have never advocated violence against homosexuals.

Distinguishing...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Jaymax

He is more than likely one of the many straight men who sexually molest young boys because they get off on the power they have over an innocent child. Not a true pedophile.

Not much different to the motivation of men who rape women.

The fact that you confuse this with homosexuality is rather disturbing.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

Incorrect. But it's a common misconception amongst those who are not educated about topics like sexual orientation or child molestation/pedophilia.

No, the issue, which you continually avoid, is that homosexuality is as abnormal behavior.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

1. Homosexuality does not just refer to "sexual actvity within the same gender".

People with a heterosexual sexual orientation can engage in 'sexual activity within the same gender'

Then those people are not heterosexuals.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

eg: Research shows that it's most often heterosexual men who rape other men. Research also shows that males who molest male children often have an adult heterosexual sexual orientation.

Then they are not heterosexual. You seem to have a language problem.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

Sexual orientation (Homosexuality, heterosexuality or bisexuality), is far more than just "sexual activity within the same gender"

Heterosexuality is not an "orientation"; it is a function of human existence. In fact, humans exist precisely because they are heterosexual.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

I suppose there will always be people who lack the maturity and empathy to accept others who are different to them.

Merely being different does not rise to the level of abnormality.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

These people appear to make a choice to remain willfully ignorant to maintain their prejudices.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where men have vaginas and how homosexuals procreate.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

1. Pretending that the word 'homophobia' only means 'fear' of homosexuals and homosexuality, when any dictionary will tell them it has evolved to include antipathy and discrimination.

By your own admission it has "evolved" and how did that happen? Well, that happened because you kept incorrectly using the words, that's how it happened.

That doesn't impress me. It is not at all unlike "racism" which has evolved to an epithet applied to anyone in disagreement with another, even though race or ethnicity is not even at issue.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

Although they do seem to 'fear' gay and lesbian people being treated equally to straight people.

No, the issue is treating abnormal behavior as normal.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

2. Dehumanising gays and lesbians by only focusing on sex acts (especially gay male sex). Ignoring the fact that gay and lesbian people have lives, loves, families, dreams, careers, etc just as straight people do.

Necrophiliacs, Zoophiliacs and murderers often have have lives, loves, families, dreams, careers, etc just as straight people do, but that doesn't make them normal.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

3. Double standards for straight people and gay people. eg: Straight people can talk about their partners/spouses, wear wedding rings, have engagement parties, weddings, have movies, songs, books, tv shows etc all about straight people and their love lives, but if a gay or lesbian person even mentions they have a partner and went to a picnic on the weekend, then they are 'shoving their sexuality down everyones throats'.

Again, the issue is abnormal sexual behavior. I suppose many people would be put off by a woman discussing her sexual exploits with a dog and a horse.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

Trying to paint gay men as child molestors and 'pedophiles', when the research shows they are far less likely to molest children (male or female) than straight men are.

Again, the issue is abnormal sexual behavior. Learn and understand the difference.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

5. Ignoring all the research that supports homosexuality being biological and repeatedly calling homosexuality a 'lifestyle choice'.

I don't see any valid research that has made any unequivocal conclusions. All I see is "Weasel Words" like "believe," "feel," "possibly," "maybe," "could be/could result," "may be/may result" and so on.

Since you don't understand science, I will school you in that regard. Science is universal, meaning it always is -- and because it is universal, it is repeatable.

In other words x + y = z always is and anyone can conduct their own experiments and get the same results. I can mix Hydrochloric Acid with Sodium Hydroxide, and each and every time, without fail, I will get H2O (Water) and a salt -- in this instance Sodium Chloride (Table Salt). Everyone who ever lived, who lives now and how lives in the future will be able to add HCl to SOH and get H2O and NaCl.

Same is true for 4.5 kg of plutonium. Everyone on Planet Earth can take 4.5 kg of plutonium, force it to a certain density, and get a yield of 0.01 kt; force it to an even denser state and get a yield of 0.1 kt; and force it to an extremely dense state and get a yield of 1 kt.

That is science. When you actually post some science, I'll pay attention.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

6. Claiming that gays and lesbian can 'choose' to change their sexual orientation to heterosexual when there is zero credible evidence that this is even possible.

And on what basis do you make that claim?

Around 2001 or so, a psychiatrist published a study in which he claimed homosexuals can change their orientation. After about 10 years of being attacked and vilified by pragmataphobes and heterophobes, he recanted in 2010 or 2011, making an extraordinary claim.

He claimed that the credibility of the individuals involved in the study was in question.

For any psychiatrist or psychology to make such a claim casts aspersions on the entire field of psychiatry and psychology, because if the credibility of an subjects are ever at issue, then no study has any validity.

Is there any evidence that pedophiles, paraphiles or [true] rapists can be rehabilitated? Well, that in fact is a trick question, because in the History of Earth, there is no evidence whatsoever that any pedophile, paraphile, or rapist has been rehabilitated.

And why? Why is it impossible to rehabilitate such people? Because they refuse to see their behavior as abnormal. Why? It doesn't really matter why.

Not only is that true of all sexual deviants, including zoophiles/bestiality, necrophiliacs (those who like sex with dead people), "weenie-waggers" et al, it is also true of all criminal actions and all other behaviors that are abnormal.

A sexual deviant can never be rehabilitated so long as they refuse to acknowledge that their behavior is abnormal and their actions are wrong. The same is true of criminals. No criminal, regardless of the crime committed, can ever be rehabilitated so long as they refuse to acknowledge that their behavior is abnormal and their actions are wrong.

And that also applies to all forms of psycho-therapy, whether it is addiction therapy or emotional illness therapy. A gambler, a drug addict, an alcoholic and such can never be transformed, until they admit they have a problem and that their behaviors are wrong. Same with those who abuse spouses or children, and "cutters" (people who slash their bodies, usually their arms/forearms with broken glass, knives, metal fragments etc), those who are extremely jealous or insecure, or lacking in trust, and so on.

What you have presented is a classic tautological/circular argument.

Homosexuals refuse to see their behavior as abnormal -- and so cannot change -- because homosexuals refuse to see their behavior as abnormal -- and so cannot change -- because homosexuals refuse to see their behavior as abnormal.......

Congratulations on that.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

7. Claiming that denying gay and lesbian people the same access to civil marriage (and it's protections and benefits) is just "defending marriage' yet ignoring the divorce rates, domestic violence and infidelity of straight marriages.

So? Homosexuality, as an abnormal sexual behavior ought not be criminalized, but at the same time, others do not have to accept it or condone it, and that does not make them intolerant, or homophobic or racist or bigoted.

The whole idea of marriage is means of validating the life-style and sexual behavior that refuse to acknowledge as abnormal.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

8. Claiming that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin* but ignoring all the other 'sins' that they commit every day. Also ignoring the fact that the Bible condones things that are considered barbaric or 'abominable' by 21st century standards.

I'm an atheist. Why would give a damn what someone's bible says?

Originally Posted by Jaymax

9. Insisting that marriage is religious, when it is legal 'civil' marriage that is being discussed, not non-legal religious ceremonies.

That would not be me. I see marriage as a contractual obligation to be handled exactly as any other contract, and that means when one party violates the contract or fails to perform on the contract then the violating party is severely penalized.

And yes, that means a spouse who engages in infidelity or other wrongful behavior should forfeit everything.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

Spreading 'smear and fear' 'junk science', propaganda and misinformation from religious-based anti-gay websites yet ignoring evidence-based information from legitimate health and science sources.

And what exactly are you doing? You don't even understand "science." Science is not people agreeing that something "might be...maybe...possibly" in order to avoid persecution and harassment by others.

Not impressed...

Mircea

Originally Posted by jjrose

No pedophiles go after young boys.

Not always. The difference between pedophiles and paraphiles is age group. Pedophiles prefer infants to the prepubescent age, while paraphiles prefer children in the 10-13 age group.

Correcting...

Mircea

Originally Posted by css9450

Is forever linking homosexuality with pedophilia the only page in your playbook? Try something new for a change.

Okay.

Jeopardy Contestant: I'll take Reality & Truth for $200, Alex.

Alex Trebek: And we have the Daily Double. How much will you risk?

Jeopardy Contestant: All of it...all $10,000 of it.

Alex: Okay, The answer is: homosexuality, bestiality, pedophilia, paraphilia, necrophilia, public exposure and rape are these...

Jeopardy Contestant: What are abnormal and deviant sexual behaviors?

Alex: Correct, and you have doubled your score to $20,000

Amused...

Mircea

Originally Posted by TXRunner

I'm not sure there are pedophile rights groups..

Originally Posted by TXRunner

...but there is a difference between two consenting adults having sex...

Originally Posted by jjrose

Even IF pedophilia is an inborn trait, it harms a child. Children can not consent to a sexual relationship.
Relationships between consenting adult homosexuals are not, in any way related to pedophilia.

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

Gee, unlike what your posts seem to indicate, I actually am aware that there is a difference between pedophilia and homosexuality.
Your post fails.

Not relevant, since the behavior is still abnormal.

Suppose people formed a group and consented to have a scissors stuck in their eyeballs, so they all sat around sticking scissors in one another's eyeballs.

Does that change their behavior from abnormal to normal?

Questioning....

Mircea

Originally Posted by carterstamp

Because people continue to think homosexuality os a chosen way of life, when it isn't.

That question will never be answered, so long as pragmataphobes continue to harass and attack and vilify those who do not agree with them.

Realistically...

Mircea

[wawa1992]

It is different, in my eyes. Homosexuality is a choice, albeit one that's very, very hard to change, and one that's probably heavily influenced by genetics. Race is something you're born with.

I see both homophobia and racism as very wrong, but I do believe that racism is worse.

[css9450]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Realistically...

Mircea

Hardly. Do you think anyone is going to read that 10,000 word manifesto you posted? Why don't you summarize it in a few sentences. Oh, no, then you'd be just another wacko.

[jjrose]

Originally Posted by Howest2008

Why does Homosexuals want Homosexual Marriage if Domestic Partnerships and Civil Union are equal with Homosexual Marriage , once the Federal Government gives it all of the Federal Benefits ,Domestic Partnership and Civil Unions will be equal with Heterosexual Marriage.

Why should our taxes go to pay for the changing of EVERY law, document, anything that contains the word married, marriage, or refers to marital status? That is what would have to be done to assure that civil unions receive ALL the same rights as marriage. Not only the government paperwork would have to be changed. All companies that have any documentation that refers to marital status would have to be changed. How many forms have a box to check off for marital status?

Why not have one name for something that is the same.

[jjrose]

Originally Posted by jjrose
No pedophiles go after young boys.


Not always. The difference between pedophiles and paraphiles is age group. Pedophiles prefer infants to the prepubescent age, while paraphiles prefer children in the 10-13 age group.

Correcting...

Mircea

You aren't correcting anyone. WE were discussing pedophiles.

Just so you know paraphillia is ANY fetish. Foot fetish, food fetish. Not just post pubescent boys.

Nepiophilia is used to refer to a sexual preference for infants and toddlers (usually ages 0–3),[31] pedophilia is used for individuals with a primary sexual interest in prepubescent children aged 13 or younger,[1] and hebephilia is defined as individuals with a primary sexual interest in 11-14 year old pubescents

Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CORRECTING...
JJ

[Cluckr7]

Originally Posted by puggal

Because they can use religion to justify the intolerance.

It isn't really about religion, of course. The same people screaming about how homosexuality is a sin willingly sin themselves on a daily basis. It is quite simply about control and the fact that they have a widely-accepted excuse to hide behind.

Though if you hang around this board some more, you'll see some are as blatantly racist as they are homophobic.

Agreed. I think using religion as a justification for discriminating based on sexual orientation is pretty cowardly and sheepish. I go to one of the few catholic churches that welcomes everyone, including LGBT, and I think it's a role model church.

I will never understand how people can put more stock in a literal translation of events 2000 years ago over the simple concept of decency and treat others as you want to be treated. I just imagine people thinking "well it's sort of written in this book so I'm not going to ask myself the hard question of whether it's actually right". And I don't see how people constantly forget that the "factual basis" has been translated/interpretted and re-translated/interpretted by humans (not perfect) dozens of times over hundreds of years through all sorts of politically driven events.

[magoomafoo]

Imo, a persons color cannot be changed..."Micheal Jackson excluded" lol. A persons sexual preferences can be changed. Therefore, it is no racism to be against homosexuality.

[jjrose]

Originally Posted by magoomafoo

Imo, a persons color cannot be changed..."Micheal Jackson excluded" lol. A persons sexual preferences can be changed. Therefore, it is no racism to be against homosexuality.

No, a person can hide their sexual orientation, but they can not really change it.
Could you personally change your orientation? I mean REALLY decide to enjoy being with someone of the same gender?
Just think long and hard on this. Mentally picture it. Grosses you out doesn't it?
It's the same for us.

[css9450]

Originally Posted by magoomafoo

A persons sexual preferences can be changed.

Oh really? How, exactly.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by alexiana

As a black lesbian, I neither chose my race or my sexual orientation. Why is it most sane Americans acknowledge the pathology of racisms' destructiveness but are then unwilling to acknowledge homophobia is no different?

Perhaps it is because there is no clear definition of either "racism" or "homophobia"?? This is getting so ridiculous.

I don't like to get into these "gay rights" threads, because I know sure as sun rises in the east, that the same "activists" are going to come swarming out of the woodwork and make the same points and homosexual sound-bytes and most of them very dependent upon "pop culture" definitions. Of which there is none.

"Racism"? WHAT does that mean? It can run the spectrum from hating someone simply because they are of a different race...or objecting to a quota system (euphemistically known as "affirmative action"). And "homophobia? LMAO. What does THAT mean? Literally, it would be "fear of man". If so, seems like something that the lesbian population would be "guilty" of!

But really....sooooo you are a black lesbian? Does that make you feel good about yourself and credit with some kind of courage because you announce it to the world? Hell, I am a white straight man with politicially incorrect attitudes and don't make a point of announcing it, nor expect acolades for being so.

I do agree with you in one realm. In most cases, I honestly believe people cannot help their sexual orientation. But that is a far cry from what is being demanded today. That is, that the rest of society not only tolerate it, but actually embrace it.

The 60's Civil Rights movement is not comparable to the Gay Rights movement; much as y'all would like it to make that leap into analogy. In fact, you (and being a black woman I am sure you know this) will find the largest demographic opposition comes from the African-American population....

To sum it up, all you are doing is using "loaded" and meaningless and ambiguous terms in a calculated, negative, way...to make a "point" that is questionable, anyway...

And finally, the "gay rights" people HAVE to characterize their "opposition" as "bigoted" and "biased" and etc, etc, ad nauseum. The reason is, their position is dependent on presenting honest, principled, and moral opposition to the gay lifestyle as being a hatred of gay people themselves. Otherwise, they cannot present themselves as "victims" of a hateful and unenlightened society.

Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

Most of us out here who object to homosexual marriage (and particularly the "right" to adopt children) do NOT have any personal animosity toward gay people as individuals. Not in the least (I have friends who are openly gay, in fact...and they really are good friends). We do, however, object to these silly--a$$ed comparrisons, and the demand that a thousand years of definition of marriage be suddenly overturned and changed...

Now then, I am outta here!