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I suggest to you that "religious definitions of what is moral or not...." are "injected" into our laws every day - from the halls of Congress to your local school board. From the City Counsel to the local Planning board. It is part of this nations fabric -
Those ludicrous laws get struck down often, too, like Jim Crow Laws, poll tax laws, literacy test laws, separate but equal laws, laws denying women the vote, the Sunday Blue Laws that kept everything closed on Sundays, etc.
Just because these things are on the books, doesn't make them right.
Those ludicrous laws get struck down often, too, like Jim Crow Laws, poll tax laws, literacy test laws, separate but equal laws, laws denying women the vote, the Sunday Blue Laws that kept everything closed on Sundays, etc.
Just because these things are on the books, doesn't make them right.
Mike - I am talking about normal, everyday laws - from zoning laws, to health laws, to traffic laws etc.
One example - pretty common: A new adult bookstore or strip club wants to move into a commercially zoned area - want to bet the battle over moral values in the community will not be part of the approval / disapproval process?
Did you know that in Clark County Nevada (Las Vegas), New Car dealers are not open on SUNDAY -
Moral and ethical are not religious. They stand alone.
When a legislator interjects his/her religious biases, and all religion is biased, they are not upholding the law!
One of the critical reasons that Islam has gone astray is the co-mingling of law and religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday
I suggest to you that many legislators do just that - they propose / pass legislation (laws) based, in part, on their own moral (read religious) beliefs.
Mike - I am talking about normal, everyday laws - from zoning laws, to health laws, to traffic laws etc. One example - pretty common: A new adult bookstore or strip club wants to move into a commercially zoned area - want to bet the battle over moral values in the community will not be part of the approval / disapproval process? Did you know that in Clark County Nevada (Las Vegas), New Car dealers are not open on SUNDAY -
Could be some truth to that, but not sure the battles over strip clubs or naughty book stores are about moral values anymore. These fights are couched in terms of what is or isn't consistent with the character of the surrounding area or proximity to school zones. I'd no sooner put a chicken rendering plant in a residental area then I would a bawdy house or peep show arcade.
Not sure we need a national level organization do tend to such local issues. Local school, church and community leaders are smart enough to do the job. They always were in the past. What's changed is that Dobson, et al, are control freaks, they want to control the dialog, the laws, the money, make the laws over in their image. This should frighten us all as much as Jesse Jackson or Rabbi Kahane or Mullah Omar writing our laws.
With so much adult material available on cable or the web, these fights are fewer (I'd guess). And wouldn't we all love to see the records of what all those pious types are looking at? I'd bet the truth would shock every old maid in church to know that her deacon is a horn dog or womanizer or pervert of high order....like Bill Clinton, like Rep Foley, like Sens Vitter & Craig, like Revs M.L. King and Jesse Jackson, like ALL of the Kennedy brothers, like pedophile priests, like Michael Jackson, like Jimmy Swaggart, like Jim Bakker, like Warren Jeffs, like David Koresh (he set himself up as a prophet there in Waco, appointing himself the deflowerer of all 14-year old girls in his "order"), on and on it goes, ad infinitum. Who knows what dirt is yet to surface on Dobson or Robertson, and the lawyers they're hiring. I do NOT want any of these dudes hiring lawyers to make laws for me to live by. Nor should you.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 09-26-2007 at 06:36 PM..
Reason: Add more
....The framers never said that there should be a "separation" of "church and state" - they said that there should not be a state sponsored religion, i.e. the Church of England - and there isn't one in the US - and that is a great thing. But, religion is part of American life. Over 80% of Americans identify themselves as "religious". So, while I agree that ones religious beliefs should not be imposed on another or shoved in their face, nor should the non religious try to force the elimination of religion from the very fabric of this great nation.
But if Bush allows the ADF and Dobson, et al, to inject ONE form of religious doctrine into law, then THAT makes it state-sponsored religion, since as LAW it's backed by the full force of Government, be it local or national matters.
I appreciate living a good moral, ethical life. I try as hard as anyone to do so. But I won't inject my religion, music, choice of car, style of house, hairstyle, eating, drinking and sex habits, etc, on to anyone else. Wouldn't be moral.
Mike - I am talking about normal, everyday laws - from zoning laws, to health laws, to traffic laws etc.
One example - pretty common: A new adult bookstore or strip club wants to move into a commercially zoned area - want to bet the battle over moral values in the community will not be part of the approval / disapproval process?
Did you know that in Clark County Nevada (Las Vegas), New Car dealers are not open on SUNDAY -
What I don't understand is, if a community is so religious, why is it a problem for some oif the ACLU gets a blue law law struck off the books? Aren't religiously minded businesses allowed to CLOSE if they want on Sundays?
Last I checked, striking a blue law down doesn't MAKE a business open on Sunday. But, it DOES allow other non-religious or differently-religious businesses to stay open IF THEY'D LIKE.
For those that believe the ACLU is actually doing a disservice to the American people, there's a new group on the horizon that is countering the ACLU's agenda. Check out: Alliance Defense Fund - Defending Our First Liberty
The number of high powered lawyers joining up with the ADF is incredible. This is good news for those of us who have had enough of the ACLU's pathetic track record.
The Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) is the only legal ministry in the United States that provides regular, extensive, and top-level training through an accredited academy program to help practicing attorneys successfully defend and reclaim religious freedom, the sanctity of human life, and traditional family values.
I am sure this will be good news for those that have had enough of the ACLU.
Sounds like they're trying to knock down the wall separating church and state. They won't get any support from me.
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,096 posts, read 1,469,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east
I'm not fond of the ACLU, but I truly find the ADF a danger to us all. They are intent on shoving the doctrine of the American Taliban (Dobson, Robertson and Falwell) down our throats and into public law every chance they get. That is their mission. What about the doctine of Al Sharpton? Or Jesse Jackson? Or Rabbi so and so? Or Imam Sheik Bim Solla Bim?
It is totally counter to the Constitution that ANY form of religion inject its doctrine into public law.
What if the Jewish guys decided to make this a Jewish-governed nation? First thing they do is inject their dietary law into OUR public law and stop all hog farming and all that stuff we like to eat made from pork. Well ain't that swell.
Then the millions of Hindu-Americans get in the act, and make cows sacred, then all we got left to eat is chicken and fish. How do you Texas boys like your Chicken ribs -dry rub or wet baste?
Then, millions of Islamic-Americans get their doctrine shoved into public law, and suddenly all women have to wear that black gown from head to toe, leaving only the eyes exposed. Won't that go over big on ladies night down at Gilley's. Sheer idiocy for most Americans to even think of it, but that's the law in some parts of this world, and they can hire lawyers here too if they want. Do you still like the idea of religion being shoved into public law?
The Founding Fathers got it right to ordain a separation of church and state. Keep ALL religion out of public law. Keep YOUR religion in YOUR place of worship and YOUR home. Live it all you want, I don't have a single objection to anyone living their faith. Live a life that is a beacon unto others, but don't force it on anyone, especially via the legal process and/or campaign donations (bribes) to members of Congress.
s/Mike
There is a lot of stuff shoved down our throats that most people are against. It's high time we shove back and hard.
There is a lot of stuff shoved down our throats that most people are against. It's high time we shove back and hard.
You're just prolonging the inevitable!
Bad law is bad law. If your viewpoint can hold up to case law, it's a waste of time. It will actually be interesting to see what these clowns can come up with when arguing a case. What will they rest their case theory on? Case precedent is way too powerful for some two-bit group like this one to change overnight.
ON the supreme court building, take a look at the top of the building...guess what tablet of rules are carved in stone and guess who is holding it? THe next thing you know, the ACLU will demand those to be removed just as they have demanded them moved on every other court room in America.
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THe next thing you know, the ACLU will demand those to be removed just as they have demanded them moved on every other court room in America.
