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The entire premise of the OP is an outright intentional falsehood.
Operation Fast & Furious broke every major federal firearms law on the books.
Which ones?
Quote:
It was not "allowed" to happen; it was an illegal activity wholly funded and prosecuted by the DOJ and the agencies under it including but not limited to: BATFE, ICE, DEA, IRS. BATFE forced FFL's to complete purchases by individuals who failed the NICs background check.
Source?
Quote:
BATFE traffiked firearms, including full auto (not transferable ones or with the required federal stamp) and grenades across the US Southern border without a waiver by the Dept. of State or the knowledge and permission of the Mexican government. Unlike with previous administration sting operations there were no attempts to follow the arms once they were sold to known straw purchasers, felons, and cartel members.
Again... b/c of NRA lobbied laws, there was nothing they could do about that. All that "gun walking" were legal purchases. They brought 31 cases to prosecutors and prosecutors told them "You don't have enough to charge them."
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73
LOL at "2nd agreement"
If I want to sell my private property to someone else directly, why can't I? Are guns radioactive? Are they hazmat?
Whoops... damn autocorrect.
But your second sentence shows your faux rage...
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger
2nd agreement?
Wow, you have that wrong.
First, and as has been mentioned already, it wasn't "allowed" to happen. It was intentional. Second, the agencies involved knowingly and intentionally purchased the weapons using a straw purchaser, which itself is a crime.
In other words, they had to break the law in order to even get started with the "gun walking" process.
This isn't a left/right issue, or at least, it shouldn't be. EVERY citizen - including you - should be extremely ticked off at your elected officials for not only botching the operation, but for planning and executing it in the first place!
Take your own faux outrage and bring it to the kindergarten playground, where it belongs.
How do you think drug busts happen?
Straw purchases are illegal IF you can prove intent of the purchase was to hand it off. That's the gun-walking.
Again... b/c of NRA lobbied laws, there was nothing they could do about that. All that "gun walking" were legal purchases. They brought 31 cases to prosecutors and prosecutors told them "You don't have enough to charge them."
Whoops... damn autocorrect.
But your second sentence shows your faux rage...
How do you think drug busts happen?
Straw purchases are illegal IF you can prove intent of the purchase was to hand it off. That's the gun-walking.
I've posted more sources and links in regard to Operation Fast & Furious than any other poster on CD.
I suggest you go back to those dozens of threads and links I have provided and do your homework instead of predictably parroting the Progressive talking points.
The intent of the government was illegal.......gun traffiking to known felons and foreign drug cartel members. The intent of our government under the Holder DOJ/BATFE was always to hand off the weapons to illegal straw purchasers and known felons/drug cartel members with absolutely NO plan or means for tracking.
Reporting from Glendale and Rio Rico, Ariz. — In the fall of 2009, ATF agents installed a secret phone line and hidden cameras in a ceiling panel and wall at Andre Howard's Lone Wolf gun store. They gave him one basic instruction: Sell guns to every illegal purchaser who walks through the door.
WASHINGTON - Federal agent John Dodson says what he was asked to do was beyond belief.
He was intentionally letting guns go to Mexico?
"Yes ma'am," Dodson told CBS News. "The agency was."
An Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms senior agent assigned to the Phoenix office in 2010, Dodson's job is to stop gun trafficking across the border. Instead, he says he was ordered to sit by and watch it happen.
Investigators call the tactic letting guns "walk." In this case, walking into the hands of criminals who would use them in Mexico and the United States.
My outrage is 100% real, unlike the OP's. I would be AG-Holder's biggest cheerleader had he gone after the truth in Operation Fast & Furiously aggressively, prosecuted those involved at the highest levels of BATFE and his own DOJ, instead of staging a massive cover-up.
I've posted more sources and links in regard to Operation Fast & Furious than any other poster on CD.
I suggest you go back to those dozens of threads and links I have provided and do your homework instead of predictably parroting the Progressive talking points.
The intent of the government was illegal.......gun traffiking to known felons and foreign drug cartel members. The intent of our government under the Holder DOJ/BATFE was always to hand off the weapons to illegal straw purchasers and known felons/drug cartel members with absolutely NO plan or means for tracking.
My outrage is 100% real, unlike the OP's. I would be AG-Holder's biggest cheerleader had he gone after the truth in Operation Fast & Furiously aggressively, prosecuted those involved at the highest levels of BATFE and his own DOJ, instead of staging a massive cover-up.
The entire straw purchasers and trafficking argument is undone by needing to prove that at the time of purchase, the intent was to traffic. Do you dispute or accept that?
As far as selling to people holding fake IDs, no one has corroborated that, not even the guy who initially claimed that "gun walking" was happening. Until someone else comes forward and corroborates that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73
OP still hasn't addressed why I can't sell my private property to another person directly?
You can. And if that's what you believe that applies to gun, then you have no grounds to be upset about the "gun walking" scandal.
You can. And if that's what you believe that applies to gun, then you have no grounds to be upset about the "gun walking" scandal.
The gov't doesn't have the same privileges as I, a private citizen, does. Also, it has no legal ability to sell guns across borders, especially to KNOWN criminals.
So now were commies. Yesterday we were racists. What'll it be next week?
And you people are despicable for aiding in Holders cover up. He release the docs, we get answers and it goes away. Its that simple. You put party and race above truth and justice
The only reason the "gun walking" was allowed to happen was b/c of 3 laws the nra and gun lobby pushed.
Gun sales at gun shows are legal
Gun transfers after the sale are legal
Gun transfers are only illegal if you have proof that the intent of the purchase was to commit a crime
Even calling the op gun walking is a lie, since those guns were legal purchases b/c of the above.
So Conservatives either need top drop the faux outrage, trumped up charges, and partisan bs our jon hands w those that want to enact common sense regulations on gun sales.
So then the Obama administration conducting illegal activity is the NRA's fault?
The entire premise of the OP is an outright intentional falsehood.
Operation Fast & Furious broke every major federal firearms law on the books. It was not "allowed" to happen; it was an illegal activity wholly funded and prosecuted by the DOJ and the agencies under it including but not limited to: BATFE, ICE, DEA, IRS. BATFE forced FFL's to complete purchases by individuals who failed the NICs background check. BATFE traffiked firearms, including full auto (not transferable ones or with the required federal stamp) and grenades across the US Southern border without a waiver by the Dept. of State or the knowledge and permission of the Mexican government. Unlike with previous administration sting operations there were no attempts to follow the arms once they were sold to known straw purchasers, felons, and cartel members.
Gonna have to call you out. The FFL's didn't sell to individuals who failed teh NIC background check. They didn't sell full-auto weapons, and there WERE attempts to follow the arms past straw purchasers but the ineptness of the AZ office made that almost impossible.
Gonna have to call you out. The FFL's didn't sell to individuals who failed teh NIC background check. They didn't sell full-auto weapons, and there WERE attempts to follow the arms past straw purchasers but the ineptness of the AZ office made that almost impossible.
See the link in post #12 as to telling FFLs they must sell to those failing the NICS. As to the traffiking of full auto and grenades, that was done indeed. Understand the difference between traffiking and selling.
Perhaps you would like to provide a link to the testimony before the US House Oversight and Reform Committee proving attempts to track were actually made as you claim?
The gov't doesn't have the same privileges as I, a private citizen, does. Also, it has no legal ability to sell guns across borders, especially to KNOWN criminals.
Ummm... what are you arguing? Nothing above relates to what happened w/ fast & furious.
The USG did not sell any guns. They allowed guns to be LEGALLY sold and due to laws pushed by the NRA & gun lobbies, couldn't do anything about it.
If you're defending property rights, then you have no grounds to criticize that operation, let alone call it a scandal.
So are you okay w/ the end results of F&F or do you wish something was done to stop the guns being transferred after they were sold?
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