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Are YOU seriously telling me, it's okay to hurt INNOCENT people to get revenge?
Punish the actual ones responsible.
Taking away grants etc for students is going to affect the students and their families
I haven't read anything that says that they're considering taking away scholarships for academic programs--only athletic scholarships.
Do you think it's revenge to make criminals pay restitution, to restrict their movements, etc.? You have a warped sense of law and order and justice if you do. If there aren't consequences, there's no accountability. If you do something wrong, the system punishes you--not to get vengence, but to make sure it makes a big impression so you won't do it again. It's unfortunate that sanctions could hurt the business community around Penn State--that it might hurt tourism for people traveling there to attend games--but the boosters are partly to blame for this as well, because they helped to create a culture where the athletic department was unquestioned, and all powerful. The only way they're going to change the CULTURE at Penn State, so this can never happen again, it to make the university accountable to the community. If the community feels the pain of this, they're never going to let future administrations do whatever they want without question.
As far as the academic programs go, I haven't seen anything that says the football program there contributes dollars to academic programs. If the NCAA blocks athletic scholarships and bowl games, the students can still cheer on a football team--it just won't be a team full of top notch recruits. Nothing wrong with that.
I haven't read anything that says that they're considering taking away scholarships for academic programs--only athletic scholarships.
Do you think it's revenge to make criminals pay restitution, to restrict their movements, etc.? You have a warped sense of law and order and justice. If there aren't consequences, there's no accountability. If you do something wrong, the system punishes you--not to get vengance, but to make sure it makes a big impression so you won't do it again. It's unfortunate that sanctions could hurt the business community around Penn State, but the boosters are partly to blame for this as well, because they helped to create a culture where the athletic department was unquestioned, and all powerful. The only way they're going to change the CULTURE at Penn State, so this can never happen again, it to make the university accountable to the community. If the community feels the pain of this, they're never going to let future administrations do whatever they want without question.
As far as the academic programs go, I haven't seen anything that says the football program there contributes dollars to academic programs. If the NCAA blocks scholarships and bowl games, the students can still cheer on a football team--it just won't be a team full of top notch recruits. Nothing wrong with that.
"If it were up to me, I'd levy civil rights violations on university officials, and cut off all federal aid to PU, ooops, PSU, including barring the use of Pell Grants and federally-backed student loans, plus cut off all R&D money."
Cos, the last time I looked not all students using such things were/are football supporters.
Maybe I'm missing something, but where did that quote come from? Who posted it?
I meant that you probably shouldn't become financially dependent on one revenue stream.
I'm guessing that the academic programs are funded through more traditional routes like public funding, tuition, grants, etc. and the athletic program is supported by licensing merchandise, ticket sales, etc. I don't think stopping athletic scholarships and bowl games for a period of time would hurt the academic programs at Penn State. It would probably hurt businesses that cater to the football game crowd though--I know the downtown businesses in Lincoln make a chunk of their income on Nebraska football Saturdays when we have home games.
Maybe I'm missing something, but where did that quote come from? Who posted it?
Mircea offered her opinion, and, as far as I know, she isn't affiliated with the NCAA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Then I guess the moral of the story is don't engage in cover-ups of criminal acts.
If it were up to me, I'd levy civil rights violations on university officials, and cut off all federal aid to PU, ooops, PSU, including barring the use of Pell Grants and federally-backed student loans, plus cut off all R&D money.
For some reason faeryedark ran with it, doing her best Chicken Little imitation.
I get that, but again it doesn't HAVE to be that way.
People seem to be calling for blood from the wrong party.
The ones who DID the crime should be the ones paying.
otherwise nothing changes.
Cover-ups will still be done.
Those guys weren't thinking of the students when they covered this up, they were thinking primarily of themselves..that won't change unless a clear message is sent that they/ those parties, the INDIVIDUALs involved are the ones who pay and pay dearly
From what I've read, most of them are going to be charged with perjury and they'll most likely go to jail. The university is going to have to do just what you've suggested--clean house--but the sanctions are going to make sure that they understand the consequences if this ever happens again. It wasn't just the individuals who did this--the culture at Penn State, where football is everything, made it possible. The culture has to change.
Mircea offered her opinion, and, as far as I know, she isn't affiliated with the NCAA.
For some reason faeryedark ran with it, doing her best Chicken Little imitation.
I looked back through the whole thread, and I didn't see that statement of Mircea's. My mistake.
I agree, the sky will not fall, and education will continue at Penn State even if the football program gets the "death penalty" for a year. Who knows, maybe they'll focus more on academics! If the sanctions are milder, such as what was done with Illinois with their slush fund (no championships or bowl games allowed) the football team will still play and there may not be much noticeable difference. I can't find anything with a quick google search on how the U of CO was penalized for their sex scandal, but DH remembers they had their # of scholarships cut.
"If it were up to me, I'd levy civil rights violations on university officials, and cut off all federal aid to PU, ooops, PSU, including barring the use of Pell Grants and federally-backed student loans, plus cut off all R&D money."
Cos, the last time I looked not all students using such things were/are football supporters.
From what they've leaked, that's not what's being proposed. That's just an opinion expressed by another poster on this board. The NCAA is talking about not letting you offer athletic scholarships and not letting you play bowl games. There may be more--the announcement is tomorrow--but that's what the buzz is. No one (except one person here) has ever suggested that you lose federal aid, pell grants etc.
"While the school's football program will not face the so-called "death penalty" that would have prevented the team from playing in the fall, the school might have preferred a one-year suspension because of the severity of the scholarship losses, postseason sanctions and other penalties, the source said. "If I were Penn State or any other school and were given both options, I'd pick the death penalty," the source said, adding the range of sanctions "is well beyond what has been done in the past" and "far worse than closing the program for a year."
I looked back through the whole thread, and I didn't see that statement of Mircea's. My mistake.
No problem.
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