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The biggest problem with our healthcare costs is not doctors' salaries; it's all the middle men and the bureaucracy.
You do not want doctors who graduated from Fly by Night University and are willing to take a whack at your open heart surgery for half off the price of the Stanford grad.
After high school, physicians are in college/training for an additional 11-15 years, depending on specialty, with little or no income. Debts accumulate to nearly $300K.
How do you figure? 4 Years Undergraduate/4 Years Medical school. Internships and Residencies are paid work. No the pay isn't great (for a doctor) but most of America would kill for the "underpayment" hospital residents make. Fellowships are paid as well.
My coffee this morning was $2. I could brew it at home for $0.20. Clearly the gal at Peet's is making too much. I say we pass a law and cut their salaries.
How do you figure? 4 Years Undergraduate/4 Years Medical school. Internships and Residencies are paid work. No the pay isn't great (for a doctor) but most of America would kill for the "underpayment" hospital residents make. Fellowships are paid as well.
I was paid $18,000 per year as a resident. Fellowship went up to $35K, but I was functioning clinically as a staff physician.
That was when there were no limits on the number of hours that we were asked to work. We calculated that we made less than minimum wage as residents, given the number of hours we put in.
I mean you are going to see stuff like that when you have enforced scarcity. There were 20 years with only one new medical school as a result of AMA working to keep tuition and wages high the US population grew by 60 million in that time, but only a single med school was added. Potentially thousands upon thousands of qualified medical doctor candidates were not trained during this period due to the enforcement of scarcity. It is being corrected now, but it will take a while for the effects to be felt.
It is essentially the same thing as if you lived in a rapidly growing city in which no new grocery stores opened in 20 years, or no new K-12 schools were built in 20 years. It would cause a problem that would take some time to work out.
Last edited by Randomstudent; 07-22-2012 at 01:51 PM..
First clue that this is differently twisted propaganda.
Many what, spinal surgeons? Oncologists? What kind of doctors are we talking about here?
Are you unable to distinguish between specialties?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff
How much is too much profit from the illnesses of others?
I guess that depends on what you think your life is worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff
Can the system be changed to incetivize doctors for keeping people healthy, instead of treating them when ill?
I don't know. Are you using a Crystal Ball or a Ouija Board?
Maybe doctors should ride in your car, so they can be backseat drivers and prevent you from getting into an accident that would require their services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff
Please don't reduce this to some silly whine about some "envy" and "hate-the-rich" baloney-- This is a very significant part of our ridiculous healthcare costs...
Penis Envy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale
I don't know if they're overpaid, but they're certainly not starving. Doctors and surgeons as a group make more than anyone else.
Penis Envy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt
It is overpayment, if the 400K is AFTER all their bills, loans, office, insurance, employees, and any other bills are paid, and it's profit ONLY.
Penis Envy.
Oh, let's test your theory real quick.
Doctor gets $400,000.
Doctor spends 1,000 hours in surgery.
$400,000 / 1,000 hours = $400 per hour. Not at all unreasonable, since as a security consultant, I get paid $750 per hour.
Suppose the doctor spent 1,400 hours in surgery.
$400,000 / 1,400 hours = $285 per hour. Not at all unreasonable since, attorneys make anywhere from $15/hour to as much as $400/hour or higher.
We have a massive fail here.
Pointing out the obvious....
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni
The class warfare is starting to verge on self-parody. So these people want more regulation of healthcare, zero tort reform, and now doctors are paid too much? Yeah, considering you need great grades to get into medical school and more than a decade of additional education and training to practice medicine and usually work long hours at the start of your career, the pay is a major incentive to become a doctor in the first place.
The US already has to import doctors from overseas to meet its needs and the people complaining about how much doctors get paid seem to be trying to remove any incentive to become a doctor.
Yes, Frank, I think there is some disease that causes people to rather stupidly demand something for nothing. My primary care doctor is a woman from India. My neurosurgeon is from Argentina. The doctor that does my EMGs is from the Philippines (there's a picture of him somewhere on this forum). My orthopedic surgeon is from Brasil (I joke with her and my neurosurgeon about football --soccer). My ophthalmologist is from South Africa. And they all work at the University Hospital or the VA Medical Center. They're all good to excellent.
If I had to rely solely on US doctors, I'd be screwed.
Concurring...
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
Physician salaries make up only 8% of healthcare costs. Your concern over physician salaries, as they relate to the cost of healthcare, is misguided, given the relatively small impact on total costs.
After high school, physicians are in college/training for an additional 11-15 years, depending on specialty, with little or no income. Debts accumulate to nearly $300K.
Physicians work more hours than the average worker as well, putting in 80 hour weeks, due to evening and weekend work.
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
I was paid $18,000 per year as a resident. Fellowship went up to $35K, but I was functioning clinically as a staff physician.
That was when there were no limits on the number of hours that we were asked to work. We calculated that we made less than minimum wage as residents, given the number of hours we put in.
Yes, but some interns don't even get paid that much. And yes, they're working 18 to 24 hours per day. Peanuts really.
Agreeing...
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent
I mean you are going to see stuff like that when you have enforced scarcity. There were 20 years with only one new medical school as a result of AMA working to keep tuition and wages high the US population grew by 60 million in that time, but only a single med school was added.
Uh, those are medical schools, not Major League Baseball. We don't add schools like expansion teams just because we wanna.
Like leaders, teachers, artists, soldiers, musicians, professional athletes and such, you are either born to be a doctor, or you were not born to be a doctor. And no amount of education, training, seminars, self-help books, motivational training, audio-tapes, hypnosis, magical spells, magical potions, Harry Potter films, wishful thinking or anything else will ever change that.
Only so many people are doctors, and when you run out of people who are doctors, you import them, instead of waving a magic wand proclaiming that someone is a doctor when they are not.
And you don't seem to understand the complexities of the issue. The length of time it takes to train a doctor, particularly in specialty fields has continually increased since the 1960s. Adding additional medical schools will not reduce the time it takes to train doctors through internships and residencies.
Medically...
Mircea
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