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How did that not make sense? You said "I'm not a protected class,
I’m not and you very well know it. If a crime is committed against me it’s just a crime. Members of the protected class have the same exact crime committed on them and now it’s a hate crime with much stiffer penalties.
Those rights end when you break anti-discrimination laws... can a business owner refuse service to Blacks? Nope. They can refuse service for many reasons, but blatant prejudice is NOT one of them.
No, they do not have the right to discriminate - period. And what makes you think "gay pride folks" would be running around? Most gays and lesbians are just like anyone else, aside from the fact they love somebody of the same sex. Not to mention, gay pride parades are usually as tame as any other parade.
What?!? Communism!!!! Damn you civil rights!!! *Runs to get guns*
You make a lot of assumptions but not much sense. Maybe you’re going somewhere with this so I’ll play along. The scenarios you outlined have zero likelihood of happening. Do you have any specific examples where even one of those scenarios you just outlined ever happened and if so what was the outcome?
What if, on the other hand, I was denied entry to a lesbian bar because they don’t like men and/or just don’t want any men in there because the other patrons would be uncomfortable? All things considered this would be a legitimate point for all parties involved as the potential for me actually having an enjoyable experience in there would be pretty low even though legally I am allowed access to a business dealing with the public. Would the ACLU come to my aid and support me in a sexual discrimination lawsuit let alone press the litigation to a point where I could demand as part of my settlement terms that would require (force) the lesbian bar to openly advertise and cater to males and other heterosexuals to the point where the lesbian bar would no longer exist exclusively for “lesbians only”?
Okay, we've established one thing: the facts are entirely irrelevant to you.
I’m not and you very well know it. If a crime is committed against me it’s just a crime. Members of the protected class have the same exact crime committed on them and now it’s a hate crime with much stiffer penalties.
You are a member of a protected class, a bunch of several protected classes in fact. If you're a race, gender, sexual orientation, and religion --- even a white, male, heterosexual, Christian --- you're covered under the federal hate crime laws and most state hate crime laws based on your race, gender, sexual orientation, and religion.
You call not being allowed ever again to host weddings and wedding receptions a deal? An appropriate penalty would be maybe for 6 months or a year but never again permanently shuts down a significant portion of business revenue for this small family run establishment.
The legal costs involved were snowballing by the hour and in order to make it stop WFI had no choice, unless you call going bankrupt from unending legal expenses a “choice”, but to accept the terms. Bullying at its best.
The inn owners decided that they would not have receptions anymore, no one FORCED them to do that. They decided it was best for them and their religious beliefs. If they decided to not have receptions for 6 months, then after 6 months refused a gay or lesbian couple, they would be right back where they are now.
As for the lesbian couple getting money, I haven't read anywhere that the couple gets one dime. $10,000 goes to the HRC, and $20,000 goes into a trust to be given to charities. AND the inn has several years to put the money into the trust on a payment schedule.
I'm too tired to address your entire post right now, but just wanted to clarify that I never said it's a "utopia of tolerance and love for all."
Yes, that was a bit of metaphorical overkill on my part, but I stand by the basic reason for expressing it. That is, it is always a bit stupifying that those states which bask in the sun of praising themselves for their tolerance, are actually those areas where relations and riots between alternate groups (race, or otherwise), are the worst of all.
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I only said that blatant prejudice (specifically against LGBTQ) isn't commonplace or tolerated, and I think most people familiar with this area would agree. Intolerance exists, sure, but that's more the exception than the rule... and as I've seen with my own eyes and done myself, people aren't afraid to speak out when they feel somebody isn't being treated fairly. I've lived in a variety of places in my life, and this one seems the most welcoming of those who are "different." Can you deny that?
Yes, I can deny that. I have heard from it first-hand by those who moved from those areas what is really going on and how things are a powder-keg waiting to explode. Problem is, no one knows how long the fuse is. Do you really think it is an accident/coincidence, that the worst race riots in the history of this country are in those places that so trumpet their vaunted policies of tolerance and etc, etc?
On a related tangent, even Dr. King once said "if you want to teach a white Southerner how to hate, then send him to Chicago." To correlate with that sentiment, and why I get so disgusted when I hear folks from other parts of the country rail against the South's past, is the absolute historical hypocricy. So long as the court's and federal governmenta instrusive policies were limited to the South, all was wonderful and glorious. BUT...when "Reconstruction" came home to the rest of the country? Suddenly, mouths and agendas were put into reverse...for the obvious reason that now, theywere going to have to live by the rules they previously and self-righteously forced upon others.
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As for why people are leaving? Probably because it costs an arm & a leg to live here, while Texas is cheap as dirt... you'll also notice more people are leaving from Southern & Central California than the Bay Area, and those are completely different worlds.
You are correct. It costs an arm and leg to live there. Ever see the connection between the fact, and policies which made it so? Actually, my biggest issue is that the people fleeing from the West Coast and NE come down and try and convert their new locale into the very same mess they ruined and fled to begin with.
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P.S. Remember, my comment was specifically in regards to transsexual employees - before you go off on how we're intolerant of Christians, white people, Republicans, etc. (which we aren't really, at least in the case of the former two ).
And I in turn refer you back to my reply. Actually, I don't care if "you" (again, third person sense) are intolerant. We are ALL intolerant and biased in our own ways. My point was that those who make such a production to announce how "tolerant" they are, are usually the most intolerant of all. They just don't recognize their own intolerance.
*chuckling a bit* Reminds me of an anecdote once related by a sociology professor from the U. of NC, concerning a convention he once attended with fellows all over the nation. He was one of the few conservatives in attendance and, while sitting down to breakfast with a like-minded colleague, recalled (paraphrased):
"Look at these lefties. They prattle on and on about the 'oppressed workers'...but they treat the hired help here like sh*t..."
I’m not and you very well know it. If a crime is committed against me it’s just a crime. Members of the protected class have the same exact crime committed on them and now it’s a hate crime with much stiffer penalties.
You call not being allowed ever again to host weddings and wedding receptions a deal? An appropriate penalty would be maybe for 6 months or a year but never again permanently shuts down a significant portion of business revenue for this small family run establishment.
The legal costs involved were snowballing by the hour and in order to make it stop WFI had no choice, unless you call going bankrupt from unending legal expenses a “choice”, but to accept the terms. Bullying at its best.
According to court filings, this "small" establishment has yearly revenue between $3-5 million.
Actually, it is perfectly understood by a lot of us...which is the reason for seeing it for what it really is. An excercise in self-decieved morality...and with stats skewed to begin with. That is, for instance, non-hispanic whites are counted as "just white" when it comes to committing so-called "hate crimes". BUT? Counted as hispanic when it comes to being the vicitm. Look it up if you do not believe it.
Most criminologists agree that the crime of rape -- especially aggravated rape -- is a crime of hate and violence, not sexual pleasure. It is an undeniable fact that most inter-racial rapes are black men against white women.
Would you have an objection to classifying inter-racial rape as a hate crime?
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