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Old 09-23-2012, 10:12 AM
 
59,089 posts, read 27,318,346 times
Reputation: 14285

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
If it is a government or government sponsored function, offering a specifically Christian prayer is illegal.
Please cite twhere in the Constitution that makes this illegal.

I assume you are aware that Congress starts each session with a prayer led by the chaplain of congress.

Sunday religious services were held in the CAPITOL for many years. It was attended by many of our founding fathers.

One would think that if THEY condone and participated that they knew what the Constitution means.

NO WHERE in any official document is the phrase, "separation of Church and state".
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,095,507 times
Reputation: 2971
Breaking the law is breaking the law. Is not drunk driving a crime? Is not sneaking over the border a crime? Not the same but both need to be addressed, don't you agree? If you subjectively allow for one to be broken, then how can you make or justify an exception to enforce the other? And that is the problem that a lot of conservatives encounter. The laws of the United States are applied homogeneously across all it's citizens. Not selectively. That is what get's laws/rulings overturned.

Being able to respect and obey the laws of the land REGARDLESS of geographic location or locality is the the crux of our American rule of law. It's that all of us are protected by our Constitution and it's restrictions/freedoms regardless of where we are, or for how long we're there or if it's non-tangential to my location. Creep happens when citizens allow themselves to be lax and interpret their own version of the Constitution in order to justify their own religious, political, personal biases.

That is what it means TO ME personally. Rule of law. It only works if it's applied fairly and justly to ALL.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,095,507 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Please cite twhere in the Constitution that makes this illegal.

I assume you are aware that Congress starts each session with a prayer led by the chaplain of congress.

Sunday religious services were held in the CAPITOL for many years. It was attended by many of our founding fathers.

One would think that if THEY condone and participated that they knew what the Constitution means.

NO WHERE in any official document is the phrase, "separation of Church and state".
Even though most are lawyers, attempting to say that CONGRESS knows what the Constitution means is pure hilarity.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:18 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
If it is a government or government sponsored function, offering a specifically Christian prayer is illegal.
Congress starts each and every day this way. It would be illegal to not allow people of all beliefs to participate. It is clearly not illegal in general.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:22 AM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,183,567 times
Reputation: 32581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Phoenix attorney Dianne Post was "utterly shocked" when a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors meeting opened with a Christian prayer.
I'm shocked that she was shocked. She lives in AZ and she was surprised?
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
Breaking the law is breaking the law. Is not drunk driving a crime? Is not sneaking over the border a crime? Not the same but both need to be addressed, don't you agree? If you subjectively allow for one to be broken, then how can you make or justify an exception to enforce the other? And that is the problem that a lot of conservatives encounter. The laws of the United States are applied homogeneously across all it's citizens. Not selectively. That is what get's laws/rulings overturned.

Being able to respect and obey the laws of the land REGARDLESS of geographic location or locality is the the crux of our American rule of law. It's that all of us are protected by our Constitution and it's restrictions/freedoms regardless of where we are, or for how long we're there or if it's non-tangential to my location. Creep happens when citizens allow themselves to be lax and interpret their own version of the Constitution in order to justify their own religious, political, personal biases.

That is what it means TO ME personally. Rule of law. It only works if it's applied fairly and justly to ALL.
Constitutional Law: Prayer may be said to open Public Meetings - Avvo.com
Over a quarter century ago our U.S. Supreme Court ruled that prayers before government meetings do not violate the constitution. Since then, governing bodies at the national, state and local levels have routinely invited clergy to pray before they conduct public business. In 1983, the Supreme Court ruled in Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U. S. 783 (1983) that prayers in state legislatures do not violate the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:40 AM
 
59,089 posts, read 27,318,346 times
Reputation: 14285
Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
Even though most are lawyers, attempting to say that CONGRESS knows what the Constitution means is pure hilarity.
I don't know if you are trying to deflect or not.

I mention our Founding Fathers. If THEY don't know what thy meant when THEY wrote and signed the Constitution, then know one does.

Their actions are a good example of what they actually believed.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
I'm shocked that she was shocked. She lives in AZ and she was surprised?
Phoenix may be more liberal and got rid of any types of prayers before meetings.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Why? Prayer to whose deity?

Why are you offended at prayers being said at these meetings? After all, they have been done for 100's of years.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
If it is a government or government sponsored function, offering a specifically Christian prayer is illegal.
You might want to review the USSC decision mentioned in the article.
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