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I'm "blathering on" about a hypothetical scenario in which a Satanist student wishes to include "Satan, keep us safe" in either a prayer before the game or the school banner. So far, only one on your side of the debate even acknowledged it, and they agreed it probably wouldn't happen for him/her for long. To think non-Christian students enjoy the same freedom of expression as the Christian students across the board is absurd. One Muslim prayer at one football game one time means absolutely nothing.
I'm also wondering why there's so much resistance to the idea of simply not putting the religious promotions on the school banner so as to give the idea (however inadvertently) that the words represent the school itself. I don't get it. Freedom of speech would be protected, and the football banner would be about football. Everybody wins.
There must be something more. Another reason religious expression just has to be part of the school function itself. Any guesses?
I'm not guessing - unlike you. I live here. I experience this first hand. People in our community zealously guard our Constitutional rights.
I'm not going to break down every possible scenario. I already gave you a firsthand, accurate description of a Friday night pre game prayer led by a NON Christian - one that was treated with respect by the community. I think that's great.
I'm so glad I live here. And equally glad that you don't.
1. You assert that you support the right of people to say what they wish...free speech. Of course, the free speech rights of these yokels and their yokel kids are not being infringed. They are free to speak whatever they wish. Would you advance the argument that my free speech rights are infringed because, at my place of work which is public property, I am not allowed to say whatever I wish? This isn't difficult. If you can't keep up at this speed, best to just bow out of the thread right now. Let me help you out here: What you are unconsciously trying to argue is not for simply free speech rights, but for freedom of speech wherever one wishes, at least within the commons or public property.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
I do not support the government restricting people's first amendment rights to a free exercise of their religion. As for your situation I would have to know what it is.
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Now, I suspect that if this were a few kids and their parents arguing that they should be allowed to use Satanic placards at the football game, you and the others would be far, far less the free speech sticklers we see in this thread. Why? Because most of you would be offended. I wouldn't like it, either, not because it would offend the majority of dumb hayseeds in Podunkville, Texas, but rather because it doesn't have a damn thing to do with school or school extracurricular activities and is merely a way of balloonheads who are so insecure in their beliefs that they feel they must testify in public to foist their silly beliefs on everyone else, precisely the opposite of what Jesus instructed you to do as Christians.
2. Yes, you "could care less." That one never gets old. That's another of those indicators that never fails.
Whether someone is saying a "proper" prayer is something I can not determine and indeed it's not something I care about. The right for others to express their views is what stops something from establishing a religion. You will never find where I argue for the Constitutional rights for one but not the other.
What are you blathering on about? I already told you that we had a Muslim prayer at a football game. Apparently the non Christian students enjoy the same freedom of expression that the Christian students do in this small Texas town.
Here's a novel idea: Keep your voodoo, hocus-pocus, mumbo-jumbo superstitions to yourselves, you busybody nannies. Go to town, pull down the shades, get on your knees and pray as hard as you can. I could not care less. Just keep it away from the rest of us who don't want to have anything to do with it. How amusing it is that most of the folks who preach, "Don't Tread on Me," are the same fools who repeatedly look for ways to make other people listen to your superstitious ravings and chants. Could there be anything more invasive than that species of creatures who thinks it is their business to tell others how they must think about the most basic assumptions of life? Their intent is, quite literally, to intimidate non-believers into believing the things they wish them to believe.
I do not support the government restricting people's first amendment rights to a free exercise of their religion. As for your situation I would have to know what it is.
Then you also oppose the restrictions upon me in a taxpayer-funded institution of learning from being prohibited from saying certain things? That's an unconstitutional restriction on my 1st Amendment rights?
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Whether someone is saying a "proper" prayer is something I can not determine and indeed it's not something I care about. The right for others to express their views is what stops something from establishing a religion. You will never find where I argue for the Constitutional rights for one but not the other.
Ah, so you would defend the right of Satanists to offer Satanic prayers at the local school's football game?
I'm not asking you to determine what is a proper prayer. I believe the words attributed to Jesus on this subject are actually fairly clear and do not call for much interpretation. I'm questioning why anyone professing to be a Christian would not verify something as important as that before they venture out and directly violate and contradict the commandment given to them. I suspect, having known people like this, that the least of their interests is in actually paying any respects to Jesus, but rather in making a defiant statement towards those who wish to keep the mumbo-jumbo out of schools and to intimidate anyone who would dare question their beliefs. Those are the type of insecure people who feel the need to make public testimonies at high school football games and commencement ceremonies.
Then you also oppose the restrictions upon me in a taxpayer-funded institution of learning from being prohibited from saying certain things? That's an unconstitutional restriction on my 1st Amendment rights?
I can't make comments on vague statements. Are you telling your co-worker in the cubical next to you that you want to kill them?
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Ah, so you would defend the right of Satanists to offer Satanic prayers at the local school's football game?
Absolutely.
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I'm not asking you to determine what is a proper prayer. I believe the words attributed to Jesus on this subject are actually fairly clear and do not call for much interpretation. I'm questioning why anyone professing to be a Christian would not verify something as important as that before they venture out and directly violate and contradict the commandment given to them. I suspect, having known people like this, that the least of their interests is in actually paying any respects to Jesus, but rather in making a defiant statement towards those who wish to keep the mumbo-jumbo out of schools and to intimidate anyone who would dare question their beliefs. Those are the type of insecure people who feel the need to make public testimonies at high school football games and commencement ceremonies.
Insecure people still have a right to express their beliefs.
Insecure people still have a right to express their beliefs.
You're not going to be able to get this through your noggin, are you? Please explain how these yokels and their children, through whom they, rather cowardly, try to express themselves, are being prevented from testifying? If I am disallowed in school from using racial epithets or swearing or critiquing a particular religion, does that mean my right to do those things has been stripped of me? Of course not, that would be an asinine assertion. Almost as asinine as claiming that because these boobs are disallowed from making religious testimonies at the football game, they are now being prevented from expressing their religious beliefs. They are perfectly able to practice their religious beliefs. What they are not able to do is to express it anywhere they wish and upon anyone they wish. I'm sorry that you are unable to understand this distinction but it really is the crux of this little discussion we are having.
Just out of curiosity, do you also extend this to private institutions and businesses? If Barbara the Boob from Podunkville, Texas wishes to testify at work and the boss tells her to stop, are her rights to free exercise of religion being infringed? I'm interested in seeing how far down Silly Street you are willing to go before you bow out.
You know, if you want a dividing line between civilized cultures and primitive ones, the separation of not just church and state, but more accurately, religion and state is a prime boundary. It is not an accident that in the communities where there is no hesitation to inject religious nonsense, there will also be primitive views of other races, of women of the rights of those in the minority and so on. Look around the world and look within this country.
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