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Old 10-22-2012, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
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Until the US admits that everyone is NOT a winner and goes back to vocational vs academic tracks based on ability nothing will change and we will sink lower each year.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:03 PM
 
1,922 posts, read 1,746,277 times
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Quote:
Despite being 2nd in the world in spending per student, our students ranked 25th out of 34 countries in math and science scores.
yeah... we spend plenty as it is. The public school system isn't supposed to be a jobs program for the teachers unions.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:22 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,340,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Until the US admits that everyone is NOT a winner and goes back to vocational vs academic tracks based on ability nothing will change and we will sink lower each year.
Agree with you on this point.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,421,542 times
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My wife taught math and science when she was young. She always claimed she could predict who would do well by the time they were in 8th grade.

In many parts of the world they identify them by 8th grade or earlier.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,396,474 times
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I think the best way to fix our education system, is to go to a voucher system. Still offer public education, and let the public schools compete with the private.

Let parents send their kids to the schools with the best results.

Free market works for a lot of things, it would work to help fix our education system. One things for sure, the more "government" intervention into our education system hasn't made things better. Money can make things better, but it should be allocated by the parents, because they will make a much better decision as where that money is best used at.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:39 PM
 
2,238 posts, read 1,444,452 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
To achieve that, you'd America would actually have to place the same kind of value on education that the rest of the developed world does, yet America historically hasn't outside of certain regions of the country and likely never will.

In that case the american people need to be more open and educated to something like this, not only does this information as to the how fall on the heads of the american people it needs to be bashed into the thick skulls of our government. Only when we start having serious discussions as opposed to the "No child Left Behind" garbage which sounds nice but in reality makes things harder and gives students less of a chance to actually learn something instead of what will be on the next test. I think one of the biggest helps is to simply get rid of in places like NY regents exams that happen every mid year.

And instead have a test at the end of the year that is actually based on what is taught and curriculum as well as not letting the school administration dictate what should be taught and instead have the teachers who are actually experienced in teaching design the curriculum.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:42 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,653,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
There is so much misinformation in the linked rant that it's hard to know where to start.

"To justify their campaign, ed reformers repeat, mantra-like, that U.S. students are trailing far behind their peers in other nations, that U.S. public schools are failing. The claims are specious. Two of the three major international tests—the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study and the Trends in International Math and Science Study—break down student scores according to the poverty rate in each school. The tests are given every five years. The most recent results (2006) showed the following: students in U.S. schools where the poverty rate was less than 10 percent ranked first in reading, first in science, and third in math. When the poverty rate was 10 percent to 25 percent, U.S. students still ranked first in reading and science. But as the poverty rate rose still higher, students ranked lower and lower. Twenty percent of all U.S. schools have poverty rates over 75 percent. The average ranking of American students reflects this. The problem is not public schools; it is poverty. And as dozens of studies have shown, the gap in cognitive, physical, and social development between children in poverty and middle-class children is set by age three."

The fact is, when you factor out the effects of poverty on student performance, American students DO score at the top of the charts when compared to other countries (who do not encourage, much less mandate that all students be tested). So, the know-it-all author of your linked post actually knows very little.
Do you have a link for that quote?
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:50 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,340,548 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I think the best way to fix our education system, is to go to a voucher system. Still offer public education, and let the public schools compete with the private.

Let parents send their kids to the schools with the best results.

Free market works for a lot of things, it would work to help fix our education system. One things for sure, the more "government" intervention into our education system hasn't made things better. Money can make things better, but it should be allocated by the parents, because they will make a much better decision as where that money is best used at.
Won't work. Vouchers work because the parents who use them to send their kids to what they consider the "best" schools are invested in their child's education. Their kids would probably do well in whatever school they attended. Your plan would require that 100% of parents be concerned enough to research, visit, and consider a variety schools. If we had a 100% of parents involved in their child's education, we wouldn't need vouchers - neighborhood schools would be just fine.

Think about it: If you were to swap the student bodies of the absolute best and worst schools in your district and then compare student test scores at the end of the year, the students in the absolute worst school would still be the best and the students in the absolute best school would still be the worst. It's not the schools, it's the home life/parents that make the difference.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,396,474 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
Won't work. Vouchers work because the parents who use them to send their kids to what they consider the "best" schools are invested in their child's education. Their kids would probably do well in whatever school they attended. Your plan would require that 100% of parents be concerned enough to research, visit, and consider a variety schools. If we had a 100% of parents involved in their child's education, we wouldn't need vouchers - neighborhood schools would be just fine.

Think about it: If you were to swap the student bodies of the absolute best and worst schools in your district and then compare student test scores at the end of the year, the students in the absolute worst school would still be the best and the students in the absolute best school would still be the worst. It's not the schools, it's the home life/parents that make the difference.
Thats survival of the fittest. Parents that care have a better chance of successful children already. No amount of throwing money at a failing system fixes poor parents.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:01 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 1,393,706 times
Reputation: 705
Finland has elevated the status of teachers, with commeasurate pay, to the point where there is serious competition for the well-paying teaching positions, resulting in better teachers and a well-educated student body.

Finland's students rank at or near the top of the charts.

In this country, we demonize the teachers, complain about their unions, and make them a whipping post when the parents are too lazy to contribute anything to the education process.

Any wonder the US education system is a mess/
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