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texdav has been around a very long time and gets respect from people. Did it ever occur to you that he may have a disability or is your brain so soaked with alcohol you can't think that far?
I love reading texdav's posts. Not only is he ususlaly on target, but it reminds me of
playing Quiznation Keep um cming tex
you ask about status quo...a good question...but the answer is not as easy
It certainly is not easy to defend the indefensible, as you seem to be discovering.
How does the civilized world restrain their health costs to half our rate? You seem to enjoy this sort of research - why don't you find out for us? The Danes, the Germans, the New Zealanders are open, welcoming people, I'm sure they'll be happy to answer your inquiries, and we'll all benefit from your findings.
As I said to you in this post, the onus is on the defenders of the status quo. It isn't enough for opponents of health-insurance change to point out how expensive our current system is, and then conclude from that that change is impossible.
For the sake of other readers here, to be precise, I said nothing of the sort. For someone so impressed by the rhetorical power of figures, I'm beginning to wonder at your lack of precision. What I actually did was simply post a link to the British Columbia Ministry of Health website giving information of the monthly premium rates for the province's (single-payer) health insurance plan.
You showed me that our present system is indefensible.
1. not sure what you are griping about, even called you a gentleman (unless you are a female, then I appoligize, gentlewoman)
2. you did post
Quote:
British Columbia's single-payer plan costs (in Canadian dollars, obviously) $64/mo for an individual and $128/mo for a family of three or more. That certainly seems affordable to me.
320 million people time 128 a month is what.......40,960,000,000....(41 billion a month)....491,520,000,000....490 billion (close to a half a trillion a year)
meanwhile ther are 2-4 trillion dollars worth os health CARE costs yearly
where is the rest of the money coming from
I even in other posts showed that the average hospital pays 400,000 a month in electric costs...5 million a year...there are 10,000 hospitals in the united states ...thats 50,000,000,000...... 50 billion a year just in electric costs to run our hospitals....and that has NOTHING to do with insurance
At the risk of sounding like a sore loser (which I'm actually not, since I feel the election was a wash when comparing social to fiscal issues), I believe Romney's plan for Obamacare was to fine tune it into something good. He did, after all, state that he would repeal the bad parts and keep the good parts.
That being said, Obamacare as it stands should never have been passed. The time to create a good law is during the creative process, not after the detrimental effects are already being felt. Trying to fine tune it now is comparable to replacing your windshield wipers while driving down the freeway. It's possible to accomplish it, but chances are it's going to hurt like hell.
He never told us what he thought was "bad" and "good".
I have my own axe to grind here. I have a daughter, age 25, who is a graduate student. She also has a pre-existing condition. She is a cancer survivor. When we could put her back on our insurance, we did. (She had insurance from a job for a while, and did COBRA for a few months as well.) I'm sick of people on this forum talking about young adults on their parents insurance being "immature", "living in their parents' basement", being supported by "Mommy and Daddy", etc. The RWNJs are constantly talking about "personal responsibility" and how families should help each other before turning to the government, etc. Now I happen to agree with that. And that is just what we are doing with our daughter. WE are paying her insurance premium, and if we wanted to, we could ask her for the money. WE are helping her.
businesses would love singlepayer(less overhead)...the problem is the INDIVIDUAL taxpayer can't afford singlepayer
we have 120 million tax filers (of those 120 million , 47% get nearly everything back...so actual federal tax payers is less than 80 million)
we have 320 million people
the average guesstimates for singlepayer cost is about 3 - 6 trillion A YEAR
we (the feds) already spend about 1 trillion (medicare/caide/va) a year
so ADDITION revenue of 2- 5 trillion would be needed
2 trillion divided by 120 million taxpayers is 16.6k
5 trillion divided by 120 million taxpayers is 41.6k
16.6k(LOW END) divided by 12 months is 1381 a month....that's you bill...can you afford that???
41k(high end) divide by 12 months is 3400 a month....can you afford that???
I think not
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.
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think about it...I currently have insurance ...my cost 400 a month...my employers cost 1200 a month...total cost 1600 a month
with singlepayer..its all on YOU the taxpayer
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero
oh really..you really think costs will be cut in half....I call shenanagins
things are expensive
for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 400,000 a month...thats 5 million dollars in electric costs yearly.....you are not going to cut that piece of overhead
when you go to the local doctor and pay him/her 100..its not 100 going into their pocket
they have lots of overhead costs:
rent/lease/mortgage
property taxes
electric costs
equipment costs(and many pieces of equipment are not even made here)
cleaning costs
supply costs
personnel costs
etc
right now medicare/medicaid pay VERY LOW reembusment costs to the providers(doctors)...and many doctors are opting out...why because the money they get back doesnt cover their overhead...and the government is VERY SLOW at paying the doctors
320 million overweight people will be quite costly
and let's not forget: Obesity rates among OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 34.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.
number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.8 million for a total of 19 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer
number of americans with heart desease: 26.2 million and of those
((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 16 million ))
((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.2 million))
number of americans in nursing homes: 2 million
More than 25 million Americans have significant vision loss.
(((hmmm more than 25 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than norway,finland, denmark,switzerland,and austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))
number of americans with diabetes: 26 million
mumber of americans with asthma: 20 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.
while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers 19,26,25,26,20...that's 116 million with MAJOR health problem,,costly problems......we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world...we have the 3rd hightest population in the world (next to china and india) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in europe.....I just showed you at least 116 million people with cancer,heart,blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than france and great britian COMBINED for their total populations.
meanwhile ther are 2-4 trillion dollars worth of health CARE costs yearly
the year cost of diabetes is 300 billion...that just one disease in this country
how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or xray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in denmark
how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????
how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystirene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that arent even american
how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???
how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linnon cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????
dont you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesnt have)
I asked a simple question.....HOW are you going to control costs OF MEDICINE, not INSURANCE..........because you CANT...and it will get worse and worse as inflation devalues our dollar
320 million people time 128 a month is what.......40,960,000,000....(41 billion a month)....491,520,000,000....490 billion (close to a half a trillion a year)
meanwhile ther are 2-4 trillion dollars worth os health CARE costs yearly
where is the rest of the money coming from
I even in other posts showed that the average hospital pays 400,000 a month in electric costs...5 million a year...there are 10,000 hospitals in the united states ...thats 50,000,000,000...... 50 billion a year just in electric costs to run our hospitals....and that has NOTHING to do with insurance
Not this shyte again! You're right, in the UHC countries, they don't use electricity. Nor do they pay rent/mortgage, supply costs, ancillary staff costs or any of the above. The doctor operates out of a tent s/he pays for from his/her own pocket, with a flashlight and a space heater (in the colder countries). GIVE THIS STUFF A REST!
There is no nurse shortage in this country at this time. I have posted many links to same throughout this forum. Do a search if you don't believe me.
Not this shyte again! You're right, in the UHC countries, they don't use electricity. Nor do they pay rent/mortgage, supply costs, ancillary staff costs or any of the above. The doctor operates out of a tent s/he pays for from his/her own pocket, with a flashlight and a space heater (in the colder countries). GIVE THIS STUFF A REST!
There is no nurse shortage in this country at this time. I have posted many links to same throughout this forum. Do a search if you don't believe me.
Not this shyte again! You're right, in the UHC countries, they don't use electricity. Nor do they pay rent/mortgage, supply costs, ancillary staff costs or any of the above. The doctor operates out of a tent s/he pays for from his/her own pocket, with a flashlight and a space heater (in the colder countries). GIVE THIS STUFF A REST!
There is no nurse shortage in this country at this time. I have posted many links to same throughout this forum. Do a search if you don't believe me.
Can you provide the breakdown of how they can afford such low premiums and still provide quality care ?
How come the US can't do the same ? Where is our bottleneck ?
Actually the current number is about 15M when you only count citizens.. 50M includes illegals and others that still dont have insurance.
Anotherwords, Obamacare only taxes people who dont have care, and according to the CBO will cause 800,000 more to become unemployed, while causing millions of others to go from full time to part time employment.
ITS A COMPLETE FAILURE!!!
Quote:
The first tier for lower income taxpayers is fixed, starting at $95 for calendar year 2014 (the first year the mandate is effective), $325 in 2015, and $695 in 2016 and beyond
I don't know if that costs is for an individual or family policy. Quite a leap in 3 years - from $95 to $695.
Quote:
Sixteen states have set a limit on the number of prescription drugs they will cover for Medicaid patients, according to Kaiser Health News.
Seven of those states, according to Kaiser Health News, have enacted or tightened those limits in just the last two years.
Medicaid is a federal program that is carried out in partnership with state governments. It forms an important element of President Barack Obama's health-care plan because under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act--AKA Obamcare--a larger number of people will be covered by Medicaid, as the income cap is raised for the program.
For people unemployed or on welfare who are on Medicaid, how are they expected to pay for much needed drugs that aren't covered?
No...politicians have taken a lot of money from the healthcare industry and big pharma, not the health insurance industry...that's why why neither of them have been labeled the vilians throughtout all of this. Health insurers aren't in for big profits...they'll have big claims for serious pre-existing conditions. The healthy that don't want insurance are going to pay the penalty, not the premiums....the penalty is much less.
As far as UHC, who do you think is going to be paying for it? You want the responsibility out if the hands of the employers.....OK fine...where's money going to come from to pay for it then?
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on target, but it reminds me of
Keep um cming tex
