Several people shot as gunman opens fire at Oregon mall (March, crime)
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For those who love to blame America's gun culture for these senseless violent acts [we've already forgotten about the lunatic who recently pushed a man to his death on the NYC subway; no gun required to murder]-
Good thing he didn't have a gun, huh? He could have taken out the whole subway.
I think the mall owner has a "no guns" policy like they do for a different mall they own downtown. There's a list of rules posted at the entrances.
It is not hard in the U.S. to break the laws regarding guns. They are incomplete and inconsistently enforced. Efforts to regularize them meet with fierce resistance, and so the slaughter goes on.
I doubt that anything less than a systematic ban on the private ownership of guns can be enforced effectively anyway, since otherwise guns are still around that can be stolen, clandestinely sold, or just loaned out.
Last edited by Frank Merton; 12-13-2012 at 12:44 AM..
Reason: Correction
Here's a simple rhetorical question back at ya.....
Why do liberals think that banning guns or increasing gun laws will keep the guns out of the hands of criminals?
That isn't hard. The problem of criminals will not go away if guns are banned, but it makes their career harder. In most of Europe and Asia, guns are effectively banned. Sometimes one is smuggled in, but generally it shortly gets reported and seized. It is hard for criminals to get guns if they are not in circulation.
Of course, crimes still happen, but so many of the problems caused by guns just go away, and even crimes are less violent.
That isn't hard. The problem of criminals will not go away if guns are banned, but it makes their career harder. In most of Europe and Asia, guns are effectively banned. Sometimes one is smuggled in, but generally it shortly gets reported and seized. It is hard for criminals to get guns if they are not in circulation.
Of course, crimes still happen, but so many of the problems caused by guns just go away, and even crimes are less violent.
I see it from the flipside. Once guns are banned or heavily restricted, criminals will know that the law abiding citizens are vastly unarmed, and this will fuel their efforts.
I see it from the flipside. Once guns are banned or heavily restricted, criminals will know that the law abiding citizens are vastly unarmed, and this will fuel their efforts.
Things don't work that way. The typical criminal is far more ruthless about using a gun than the typical home gun owner, and probably far more knowledgeable. Having a gun, then, is basically an invitation to get yourself shot, rather then just robbed. Pulling a gun on one of these *******s only makes them furious.
Also, most criminals are "immediate gratifiers," meaning that they see things very short-term, and rarely consider consequences. The kind of calculation you may make, as a sensible person (although the reality is that you make this argument to rationalize guns), is not how they are thinking. Criminals see themselves as invulnerable, and guns don't scare them. The best deterrence is making your home hard to break into. They are lazy and will find something easier.
Finally, let me bring up the moral aspect of using a gun to fend off a criminal. What are you going to do if he persists? Don't ever threaten what you are not capable of doing. Many people, quite rightly, have a moral commitment to the sanctity of life, including the life of a criminal, and will not shoot. Those who have no such moral commitment are perhaps self-condemned anyway, unless they can be brought around. Even the criminal is only a criminal right then. We are all reborn from moment to moment, and clearly are not the same person we were even a year ago. Kill the criminal and you also kill what chance he had of being redeemed.
Things don't work that way. The typical criminal is far more ruthless about using a gun than the typical home gun owner, and probably far more knowledgeable. Having a gun, then, is basically an invitation to get yourself shot, rather then just robbed. Pulling a gun on one of these *******s only makes them furious.
Also, most criminals are "immediate gratifiers," meaning that they see things very short-term, and rarely consider consequences. The kind of calculation you may make, as a sensible person (although the reality is that you make this argument to rationalize guns), is not how they are thinking. Criminals see themselves as invulnerable, and guns don't scare them. The best deterrence is making your home hard to break into. They are lazy and will find something easier.
Finally, let me bring up the moral aspect of using a gun to fend off a criminal. What are you going to do if he persists? Don't ever threaten what you are not capable of doing. Many people, quite rightly, have a moral commitment to the sanctity of life, including the life of a criminal, and will not shoot. Those who have no such moral commitment are perhaps self-condemned anyway, unless they can be brought around. Even the criminal is only a criminal right then. We are all reborn from moment to moment, and clearly are not the same person we were even a year ago. Kill the criminal and you also kill what chance he had of being redeemed.
While your post is well written, it ignores one of the most basic concepts for the purpose of owning a weapon which is the threat of force. Whether or not the law abiding gun owner is willing to use the weapon is a moot point. The fact is that the criminal usually doesn't know who is armed and who's not much less what the persons mindframe and capabilities are at that particular moment. And I disagree that a gun does not scare a criminal. One of the most intimidating sounds a criminal can hear is that of a shotgun being loaded.
As far as the last part of your quote I put in bold is concerned, the last thing that most people have in mind at the time they are about to be victimized is whether or not the would be assailant can be rehabilitated.
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