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Old 12-26-2012, 11:02 AM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,168 posts, read 2,062,993 times
Reputation: 368

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
no a fetus is not just as "alive" as a new born. how cavalier you are about a woman taking to term a pregnancy and giving birth. have you done it? I would also ask if you have ever given up a child for adoption, you seem to think that's pretty easy as well.
The fact that abortion is easier for the woman is of no consequence. Sometimes the easiest decision isn't the decision that's morally right.

And if a fetus is viable, then it's just alive as a newborn. That viability has been proven to begin at 20-21 weeks. So any abortion occurring at or after 20-21 weeks has a good chance of destroying a viable infant
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:17 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,339,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
A very small % of women who have an unwanted pregnancy got pregnant without voluntarily performing the act causing pregnancy. It's a fact that most of those pregnancies are among women who had bc but didn't use it properly or women who chose to not use bc. Not to take away a woman's fun, but there's always the dreaded 10 letter 'A' word if she really, Really 'does not want to be pregnant.'
You are correct in this paragraph. The 'A' word is not so dreaded, if you are the woman who does not want to be pregnant.
Quote:
I don't think 'innocent' is the right word to use for the fetus because it implies the woman is 'guilty.' Maybe better words are the fetus had no choice, the woman had choice. Or the fetus was not responsible for its existence, the woman and her sexmate were. Or 'helpless,' while the woman wasn't.
The fetus has no consciousness with which to make a choice...or to do anything else. Without the woman it has no existence.
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm just responding to your question. A woman can have 1, 5, 10 abortions for all I care and I'm willing to pay higher insurance premiums to help pay. But it's rather obvious that in Most cases the fetus and woman have completely different levels of 'innocence' for their condition.
Pre third trimester embryos/fetuses lack any semblance of person hood, including that of "innocence."
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,168 posts, read 2,062,993 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
Pre third trimester embryos/fetuses lack any semblance of person hood, including that of "innocence."
You don't know that. Last time you tried to argue it you ended up butchering a article you didn't understand how to read.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:25 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,339,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieApocExtraordinaire View Post
A innocent life is a life who has made no morally sinful decision. The only sins in my book is stealing, including that of another life. A woman who wants to terminate another life for her own convenience is no longer innocent. There are plenty of people I could kill right now to make my life go all the bit better, but I don't because that's wrong.
A developing embryo/fetus is NOT any kind of 'life'. You can post your silly assertion as many times as you like but it it never make the assertion true.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:28 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,339,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieApocExtraordinaire View Post
You don't know that. Last time you tried to argue it you ended up butchering a article you didn't understand how to read.
I posted a follow up post that broke it down for you, step by step, with smaller words. Obviously, you still failed to grasp the concept...
Quote:
The third trimester, which starts around the 27th week, maybe a week earlier, depending on what source you use, is the earliest possibility of fetal consciousness or brain activity. An absence of brain activity is a standard indicator of lifelessness (death). The human fetus does not have a functioning neural network - sufficiently mature neurons, developed myelin sheaths, and the presence of neurotransmitters - to create thought that produces brain waves that are visible via EEG until the third trimester. Until the brain is functioning, the fetus is NOT a person.

All of the above is testable and verifiable. If you can find equally testable and verifiable sources that state a fetus possesses the biology necessary for brain activity before the third trimester, then we'll continue this conversation. Until then, case closed.

edit: Hope I used "small" enough words for you.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:28 AM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,168 posts, read 2,062,993 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
A developing embryo/fetus is NOT any kind of 'life'. You can post your silly assertion as many times as you like but it it never make the assertion true.
It fits all biological definitions of life. The term you're looking for is sentient life.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,168 posts, read 2,062,993 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
I posted a follow up post that broke it down for you, step by step, with smaller words. Obviously, you still failed to grasp the concept...
I saw that. I didn't bother reading it because it's clear to me you have no grasp of what's being discussed. It's like hearing a little kid discuss some physics concept they saw on Bill Nye the science Guy. I just smile and let them ramble on.

But here's a hint: Consciousness is a metaphysical concept. Your article made painful steps to avoid conflating their research to the formation of consciousness versus the formation of structure necessary for providing consciousness her content. It's a distinction you conflate because you don't understand what's being discussed.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:37 AM
 
1,978 posts, read 1,553,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
A developing embryo/fetus is NOT any kind of 'life'. You can post your silly assertion as many times as you like but it it never make the assertion true.
Absolutely false, absurd, wrong, unbelievably ignorant statement, with all due respect.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:40 AM
 
18,381 posts, read 19,023,642 times
Reputation: 15700
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieApocExtraordinaire View Post
The fact that abortion is easier for the woman is of no consequence. Sometimes the easiest decision isn't the decision that's morally right.

And if a fetus is viable, then it's just alive as a newborn. That viability has been proven to begin at 20-21 weeks. So any abortion occurring at or after 20-21 weeks has a good chance of destroying a viable infant
a decision being "morally right" is up to the person making that decision, not you

you need an education on abortion, do you know how many abortions are done late term and why? women don't just change their minds about their pregnancy 7 or 8 months in and want to abort. at that stage the women are devastated their pregnancies will come to an end.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:05 PM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,168 posts, read 2,062,993 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
a decision being "morally right" is up to the person making that decision, not you

you need an education on abortion, do you know how many abortions are done late term and why? women don't just change their minds about their pregnancy 7 or 8 months in and want to abort. at that stage the women are devastated their pregnancies will come to an end.
I already gave you links of women getting late term abortions not out of medical necessity but out of personal irresponsibility. The doctors were charged with murder as a result, but there are plenty of cases that get fudged so the doctors can get their money and the women their abortion.

Why do some women get an abortion so late? Some get it out of medical necessity but some because of indecision (for example, she found out the guy she got pregnant with was cheating on her, or left her), some claim they never knew they were pregnant. I dunno, but it isn't black and white as you say. And one late term abortion not done out of medical necessity is one too many.

Not to mention late term abortion is often defined ridiculously late. It should be post 15th week, not the 24th.
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