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Old 01-21-2013, 09:15 AM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,593,850 times
Reputation: 7457

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Anyone who gets into debt to live above their means is an idiot.
All the money in your pocket are created as debt to those idiots.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:22 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,982,506 times
Reputation: 4555
This is simple game theory. You have two teams. 1) Corporations/elites and 2) Citizens/unions. Government is just a tool that will carry out the political will of the winner. Right wingers have spent the last 40 years badmouthing government, diminishing it's power, diminishing it's taxation of elites, hurting unions, lessening workers rights. So, not only have they attacked citizens/unions directly, they diminished the tool (government) to stand up against their power grab. Every time you see some right wing loon bad mouthing government itself, (rather than the power behind bad government... ie corporations/elites) the poor fool is just hurting his ONLY means of helping is family, and his community. He doesn't have the IQ to understand it's not government that is bad, but that government is in the hands of corporations/elites thanks to him, not standing up for himself.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:30 AM
 
19,642 posts, read 12,235,883 times
Reputation: 26440
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Then there are millions and millions of idiots out there.
So true. If someone is still playing keep up with Joneses on credit in THIS economy, they are triple dog idiots.

Middle class does not have to be in debt. If you are in debt to actually survive, that is different. If you are in debt to think you are cool, or because you can't handle the truth that you are not upper middle class, .

I think people have strange ideas about what constitutes middle class and how it must be displayed.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado
1,976 posts, read 2,353,887 times
Reputation: 1769
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
You're like a A1 prime example of the reason why the US middle class is disappearing. You can't even comprehend your own right wing ideology accelerates middle class decline. The strongest middle classes in the World are found in liberal social democracies. Wow! Deluded!
This is of course completely correct. Destruction of unions, election of plutocrats/Republicans means the destruction of the middle class. The Republicans raped the national economy and some people still voted for them. Truly amazing.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:32 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 7,243,959 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Hmmm. It seems you don't identify with the middle class. Would that put you above them or below them? There are several people on C-D who claim to be millionaires, would you be one of them?
How do you figure blue eyes?
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:36 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 7,243,959 times
Reputation: 2279
The war on the middle class, from April 2007.

I know of a former Walmart employee who had 15 years with wallyworld, was let go, fired, and she now does cleaning work at a nursing home and does other side jobs to make ends meet.

Yeah, blue eyes, I'm outta touch!


Lou Dobbs War On The Middle Class - YouTube
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,954,445 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
This is simple game theory. You have two teams. 1) Corporations/elites and 2) Citizens/unions. Government is just a tool that will carry out the political will of the winner. Right wingers have spent the last 40 years badmouthing government, diminishing it's power, diminishing it's taxation of elites, hurting unions, lessening workers rights. So, not only have they attacked citizens/unions directly, they diminished the tool (government) to stand up against their power grab. Every time you see some right wing loon bad mouthing government itself, (rather than the power behind bad government... ie corporations/elites) the poor fool is just hurting his ONLY means of helping is family, and his community. He doesn't have the IQ to understand it's not government that is bad, but that government is in the hands of corporations/elites thanks to him, not standing up for himself.
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:22 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 7,243,959 times
Reputation: 2279
Your chart only proves one thing, the wealthy are getting richer, and the poor and middle class are getting poorer. You got one for this! +1
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,758,281 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post

No you are factually wrong. The height of the middle class was under Nixon ( a coincidence ) and it's been declining ever since due to right wing policy on taxation of the rich, attacks on unions, and workers rights.
Government, moreso than anything else, lifted people into the middle class. Without government support, unions would not have prevailed.

Used to be that primarily the wealthy attended college. The GI bill changed all that.

The prosperity of the 50-60's was due to a unique set of reasons that are impossible to duplicate today, the Great Depression, the destruction of the rest of the world's infrastructure, failure of potential foreign competitors to educate their people and a highly restricted supply of workers.

Unions peaked in the 50's because the U.S. was a closed market. Everything the U.S. consumed was manufactured in the U.S.

There was also a mindset that understood the need to pay for the accumulated debt of the Great Depression and war and do so via taxation.

Begining in the 70's manufacturing jobs began to be outsourced. Technology changed the employment landscape, forever. This has nothing to do with politics.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:06 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,975,497 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Good that you were one of the fortunate ones to survive and your company is doing well. There are thousands of people who would be extremely grateful to be in your position. You should be a bit more humble. You never know what's around the corner waiting for you, as did so many people who were like you during the good times. Living the big life, gloating about it and thought it was never going to end. Hard fall when you have to live on unemployment and food stamps, blow through the little money saved, can't pay your debt, can't find a job equivalent to the one lost. Must have been a shocker.

Just saying.......................
There are millions doing well. This is not unique, the S & P is flying high, many indicators are excellent.

It is no longer 2008. Thank God. Or 2009. Almost as dreadful. Corps are more optimistic than they have been in several years.

There is still much work to do, but we have passed the worst point by a long stretch.
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