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Old 02-18-2013, 08:25 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,867,563 times
Reputation: 18304

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My guess is that for the same reason employer palns cover pre-existing codition in pools. Pools are formed for that reason to distribute cost over those who have conditions;start having conditions and will have condition i the future they want to insy=ure aginst. Otherwise why buy insrance?
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:26 PM
 
651 posts, read 705,394 times
Reputation: 306
Private insurance companys should not be involved with health care at all. It should be single payer.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,488,320 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoooka View Post
Private insurance companys should not be involved with health care at all. It should be single payer.
the government (which btw is insurance) should not be involved either


get rid of ALL insurance
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Jawjah
2,468 posts, read 1,919,558 times
Reputation: 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Some people seem to have a very strange view of what insurance companies do. They point to the problem of people who have a pre-existing condition, trying to sign up for new insurance, only to find the insurance companies won't pay for the the treatment for that pre-existing condition.

Of course they won't. That's not what insurance companies do. Whoever said they did?

Insurance is a gambling game where you bet on what will happen in the future. You "bet" that you will get sick or injured, and the company "bets" that you won't. If you get sick or injured, the company pays you the stipulated amount (paying for a portion of your medical treatment etc.), and if you don't, you pay them (premiums). The purpose is to shield you from the "shock" of suddenly and unexpectedly getting hit with huge medical bills... which is why you agreed to the contract.

A pre-existing condition cannot be insured against. It's like betting on the outcome of a horse race that's already been run - there is no "chance" involved, and no "unexpectedness" to the outcome (any more). Or like trying to get car insurance after wrecking your car.

Insurance companies are in the business of selling security - the assurance that you won't be suddenly bankrupted by huge medical bills, rehab bills etc. in the future. They do it by insuring huge numbers of people and getting them to each pay relatively small amounts (their premiums) each. They and their clients all know that most of them will never incur the huge medical bills they are worried about. But since no one knows which few people WILL incur them, they are all happy to pay the premiums, for the knowledge they won't have to pay the huge amounts if they turn out to be the unlucky ones.

Insurance companies sell safety from FUTURE possible disasters. And that's all they sell. Asking them to cover pre-existing conditions, is like asking a submarine designer to design a supersonic jet - it's got nothing to do with his business or his area of expertise, and he never volunteered to design jets in the first place, for good reason.

If you want to set up some kind of universal pool to pay for pre-existing conditions, fine, go ahead. But why drag insurance companies into it? It's got nothing to do with their areas of expertise, and they never volunteered to do it in the first place - for good reason.

Which is why we need...this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTByvLtYIYA
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:03 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,222,200 times
Reputation: 35014
Insurance is a product and unless a product does what consumers need it to it will fail. It's failing...have you been asleep?
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:49 PM
 
8,893 posts, read 5,373,289 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Why don't you pay out of pocket for your healthcare and see how much you have left for anything else.
Why would I do that? I figured out long ago I wasn't able to. That's why I bought insurance.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:26 AM
 
1,458 posts, read 1,398,723 times
Reputation: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
yep..

think about it

right now most people have EMPLOYER provided health insurance

that the EMPLOYER PAYS 75%+/- of the premuim..the employee pays 25% (give or take)

the employee CURRENTLY PAYS (about) 300-400 a month....while the employer pays 900-1200 a month...for a total monthly premium of....about15k (14400-19000)

undersingle payer..the TAXPAYER will be hit with that bill...companies and corporations will actually love the savings they are getting while the individual taxpayer gets killed
I know there are a lot of sick people in the country, but I also think the vast majority of healthy people spend a very unhealthy amount of time discussing healthcare. Many people spend far too much time using healthcare, but that's another story.

It was amusing when John McCain adopted a fairly radical healthcare policy for his 2008 campaign.

His plan was unique, in that it focused on the free market, and for the first time, attempted to direct responsibility for expenses away from the employer, and to the employee. The theory was to target the $212 billion tax expense generated by employers deducting employee healthcare expenses.

Therefore, he would eliminate the exclusion of those expenses from income. In turn, people would receive a $2,500 credit towards their own insurance, $5,000 to families. Over a 10 year period, $3.6 trillion was to be generated by the expense exclusion, which would fund the credits.

The grand theory behind this plan was to have a nationwide market of health insurance available. Another assumption would be that employers, those freed from the health insurance burden, would enrich employee's wages in kind.

Many plans, including to some extent, Obamacare, attempt to enact a form of social and economic engineering by having people involved more financially in their plans. Skin in the Game, always means people pay more attention.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:31 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,054,479 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
Insurance is a product and unless a product does what consumers need it to it will fail. It's failing...have you been asleep?
Really?

When insurers start going bankrupt, get back to me.

It is a very, very profitable business......thanks to the insurance lobby!

But you just keep your head in the sand. Don't look at what YOUR congressperson is involved with....just keep voting party line.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:35 AM
 
1,458 posts, read 1,398,723 times
Reputation: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
Why would I do that? I figured out long ago I wasn't able to. That's why I bought insurance.
Health Insurance is a different beast than other forms of insurance. Unlike homeowner's and auto insurance, health care is something people use on a far more regular basis. Healthcare insurance is also different in that people use it for the most part, without retribution. Preventative care is good, and nowadays, more and more people are encouraged, and even rewarded, for using it. There has been a sea change in how costs are controlled now, by giving employees incentive to be healthier. Many plans, certainly not all by any stretch. Some companies have lowered their costs by adopting plan changes with much higher deductibles. While these changes, along with the economy, have lowered total costs and cost projections, they probably also reduced preventative care in many cases.

I'll throw out a wild guess, that if every middle class person/household had to pay for their entire healthcare premiums now, the vast majority could not. I'd even hazard a guess that if half of those folks made lifestyle changes so they could afford their own insurance, the rest of the economy would suffer tremendously as consumer spending was diverted.

Most "affordable" plans available today, are more of the high-deductible plans designed for catastrophic losses. This would be the ultimate form of rationing, self-rationing.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:41 AM
 
1,216 posts, read 1,464,328 times
Reputation: 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Some people seem to have a very strange view of what insurance companies do. They point to the problem of people who have a pre-existing condition, trying to sign up for new insurance, only to find the insurance companies won't pay for the the treatment for that pre-existing condition.

Of course they won't. That's not what insurance companies do. Whoever said they did?

Insurance is a gambling game where you bet on what will happen in the future. You "bet" that you will get sick or injured, and the company "bets" that you won't. If you get sick or injured, the company pays you the stipulated amount (paying for a portion of your medical treatment etc.), and if you don't, you pay them (premiums). The purpose is to shield you from the "shock" of suddenly and unexpectedly getting hit with huge medical bills... which is why you agreed to the contract.
Insurance stopped being a game or a gamble when it became mandatory that everyone has it. It's no longer a bet on health, it is now a health care plan. That means it needs to cover all health issues regardless of when they occurred.

I agree with your original premise, but once choice is taken out of the equation then it stopped being a gamble.
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