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Old 04-05-2013, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,410 posts, read 26,355,027 times
Reputation: 15709

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
A survey of 200 people 20 years ago is not credible no matter the topic.
There is no question that it is a large number, unlicensed dealers at gun shows, private sales, we need to put in universal background checks anything less will continue to allow large amounts of guns to fall into the wrong hands.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:46 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,843,786 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
There is no question that it is a large number, unlicensed dealers at gun shows, private sales, we need to put in universal background checks anything less will continue to allow large amounts of guns to fall into the wrong hands.
If a dealer sells a gun at a gun show the buyer still has to have a background check. You can't even get the facts correct.

Why universal background checks will not reduce crime.
1. The majority of crime guns come from straw purchasers or are stolen per the DOJ, this universal background checks wouldn't actually reduce crime.
http://www.nraila.org/media/10883516...olicy-memo.pdf
2. Even those who are denied during current background checks, where the majority of guns are already purchased, are not prosecuted. It is a felony to lie on federal form 4473. In 2010 of the 76k denials from the background check only 62 per prosecuted.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/239272.pdf
3. The only way a universal background check system would work is if every gun is registered to its owners. Canada tried this and it was a complete failure. Why would a system that failed in Canada where they have less than 10 million guns and 35 million people work here where we have an estimated 300 million guns and over 300 million people?
Trudeau calls long-gun registry 'a failure' - Canada - CBC News
4. Criminals do not follow the law and will not participate in background checks and will get guns as outlined in item 1.
https://www.commonsense.com
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:20 PM
 
59,344 posts, read 27,505,965 times
Reputation: 14351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
There is no question that it is a large number, unlicensed dealers at gun shows, private sales, we need to put in universal background checks anything less will continue to allow large amounts of guns to fall into the wrong hands.
PSST! I've got a great bridge to sell you!
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,029 posts, read 8,361,210 times
Reputation: 4212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
There is no question that it is a large number, unlicensed dealers at gun shows, private sales, we need to put in universal background checks anything less will continue to allow large amounts of guns to fall into the wrong hands.
That's what Obama tells you anyway.....
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,410 posts, read 26,355,027 times
Reputation: 15709
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
If a dealer sells a gun at a gun show the buyer still has to have a background check. You can't even get the facts correct.

Why universal background checks will not reduce crime.
1. The majority of crime guns come from straw purchasers or are stolen per the DOJ, this universal background checks wouldn't actually reduce crime.
http://www.nraila.org/media/10883516...olicy-memo.pdf
2. Even those who are denied during current background checks, where the majority of guns are already purchased, are not prosecuted. It is a felony to lie on federal form 4473. In 2010 of the 76k denials from the background check only 62 per prosecuted.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/239272.pdf
3. The only way a universal background check system would work is if every gun is registered to its owners. Canada tried this and it was a complete failure. Why would a system that failed in Canada where they have less than 10 million guns and 35 million people work here where we have an estimated 300 million guns and over 300 million people?
Trudeau calls long-gun registry 'a failure' - Canada - CBC News
4. Criminals do not follow the law and will not participate in background checks and will get guns as outlined in item 1.
https://www.commonsense.com

Well there are your facts and then there are the actual facts. Yes licensed dealers at a gun show do background checks but there are also unlicensed private sellers that have no such requirement. Only around 7 states have background check requirements at gun shows, NY State has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation and did not have a requirement.

The ATF is incapable of prosecuting the large number of of applicants who are rejected on their requests for firearms due to lack of resources and the current laws, but you are ignoring what the law actually accomplishes. There are around 80,000 people rejected from owning a gun each year by the feds, in addition some states that run their own checks and reject a similar amount, the amount of people that don't even bother because of this law is unknown but I am sure it is large. The current law works and if it was expanded to cover private sales and transfers it would eliminate more felons.

Change proposed to New Mexicao

Quote:
If the bill becomes law, New Mexico, which is traditionally friendly to gun rights, would join at least six other states in having background checks for all firearms purchased at gun shows from private sellers, according to the Washington, D.C.-based Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.
Senate panel OKs gun show background checks - The Santa Fe New Mexican: Legislature
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:12 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,843,786 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Well there are your facts and then there are the actual facts. Yes licensed dealers at a gun show do background checks but there are also unlicensed private sellers that have no such requirement. Only around 7 states have background check requirements at gun shows, NY State has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation and did not have a requirement.

The ATF is incapable of prosecuting the large number of of applicants who are rejected on their requests for firearms due to lack of resources and the current laws, but you are ignoring what the law actually accomplishes. There are around 80,000 people rejected from owning a gun each year by the feds, in addition some states that run their own checks and reject a similar amount, the amount of people that don't even bother because of this law is unknown but I am sure it is large. The current law works and if it was expanded to cover private sales and transfers it would eliminate more felons.

Change proposed to New Mexicao


Senate panel OKs gun show background checks - The Santa Fe New Mexican: Legislature
Only 13% of crime guns come from gun shows or flea markets from private buyers.
http://www.nraila.org/media/10883516...olicy-memo.pdf

A survey of criminals say only a few percent get them from gun shows.

How would you even know someone who has a gun went through a background check? Would you make every gun owners register their current guns? Otherwise all someone has to say is they went through a background check but police would not know one way or the other. The only was UBC work is with universal registration of all currently owned guns, which has been proven to be a complete failure in Canada where they tried to do the same thing.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,410 posts, read 26,355,027 times
Reputation: 15709
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Only 13% of crime guns come from gun shows or flea markets from private buyers.
http://www.nraila.org/media/10883516...olicy-memo.pdf

A survey of criminals say only a few percent get them from gun shows.

How would you even know someone who has a gun went through a background check? Would you make every gun owners register their current guns? Otherwise all someone has to say is they went through a background check but police would not know one way or the other. The only was UBC work is with universal registration of all currently owned guns, which has been proven to be a complete failure in Canada where they tried to do the same thing.
That study is from 2000, I am not sure that it is accurate but even so it doesn't make any sense to allow unregulated sales at a gun show at a table next to an FFL. The study quoted also indicates unregulated private sellers account for crime guns.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:49 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,843,786 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
That study is from 2000, I am not sure that it is accurate but even so it doesn't make any sense to allow unregulated sales at a gun show at a table next to an FFL. The study quoted also indicates unregulated private sellers account for crime guns.
But still no where close to the amount from straw purchase or are stollen.

It doesn't make sense to enact a law that will not prevent crime.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:57 PM
 
Location: mancos
7,788 posts, read 8,045,540 times
Reputation: 6706
with the new gun laws here in CO most private transactions now come with a reciept dated 2012,our gov has created another underground economy,we buy smokes for 80 cents a pack thanx to taxes and laws that drove it underground.Looks promising.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,253,786 times
Reputation: 6553
Only a fool can believe anything this admin spouts. How many times must they be caught in their lies and misrepresenting of facts?
Hmmm perhaps he was refering to the gun sales of his home town of Chicago?
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