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Old 09-01-2013, 07:12 AM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,934 posts, read 4,464,514 times
Reputation: 3290

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I was discussing gay marriage on another thread and someone stated that marriage is a good thing because it promotes social stability. From a purely secular, logical standpoint, I agree.

Statistics have been attesting to a growing portion of the population supporting gay marriage, and most of them, even if they aren't homosexual, say that they support it because it helps stabilize society for a certain group of people, which in turn helps stabilize society on the whole. It is also provable that approximately 50% of marriages end in divorce. Furthermore, I know of extremely few Americans who would shun anyone who gets divorced (regardless of the reason), and since there is no movement that I know of to ban the ability of people to get divorced (again regardless of the reason), I have to conclude that the majority of people favor the right of people to get divorced. (I should say that I have only known one family in America which strongly opposed divorce - and they were Muslim.)

My question is this. If you are concerned about the stabilization of society (and I'm not saying you shouldn't be), how do you feel about divorce, and why?

I'll start by stating what I think, and y'all can continue. Statistics show that the divorce rate has risen very dramatically from where it was 100 years ago and further back. It began substantial acceleration in the 1970's and these days has reached the ~50% level. I believe that the increased liberalization of American society is to blame for this. Back in the day, people were much more homogeneous in how they thought, acted, and felt. This was not due to laws that restricted people's thoughts, actions, and feelings - it was just the way things were. America was always a very conservative country, at least by today's standards, and I think we can all agree that social liberalization didn't really start happening to any measurable extent until the 1950's. (Or can we?)

When people are homogeneous in the way they operate, there is much less chance for "irreconcilable differences"... because there are fewer differences overall. When society frowns upon divorce, there are fewer divorces. The United States has the third-highest "crude divorce rate" in the world. There are countries where their societies in general frown upon divorce (even if divorce is not legally punishable), and in those countries, as could be expected, the divorce rate is much lower.

It therefore stands to reason that, if the goal is stabilization of society, steps need to be taken to stigmatize, demonize, and generally discourage divorce. Agree or disagree? (If you disagree, I'd like an explanation of why you feel that divorce is not a bad thing when considering its effect on stabilization, or perhaps destabilization, of society.)

Understand that I have gone through a divorce, so it's not like I'm just thumping my tub from an outsider's perspective. I know what it's like, full well, and what tends to cause it.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:31 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,570,172 times
Reputation: 2384
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
I was discussing gay marriage on another thread and someone stated that marriage is a good thing because it promotes social stability. From a purely secular, logical standpoint, I agree.

Statistics have been attesting to a growing portion of the population supporting gay marriage, and most of them, even if they aren't homosexual, say that they support it because it helps stabilize society for a certain group of people, which in turn helps stabilize society on the whole. It is also provable that approximately 50% of marriages end in divorce. Furthermore, I know of extremely few Americans who would shun anyone who gets divorced (regardless of the reason), and since there is no movement that I know of to ban the ability of people to get divorced (again regardless of the reason), I have to conclude that the majority of people favor the right of people to get divorced. (I should say that I have only known one family in America which strongly opposed divorce - and they were Muslim.)

My question is this. If you are concerned about the stabilization of society (and I'm not saying you shouldn't be), how do you feel about divorce, and why?

I'll start by stating what I think, and y'all can continue. Statistics show that the divorce rate has risen very dramatically from where it was 100 years ago and further back. It began substantial acceleration in the 1970's and these days has reached the ~50% level. I believe that the increased liberalization of American society is to blame for this. Back in the day, people were much more homogeneous in how they thought, acted, and felt. This was not due to laws that restricted people's thoughts, actions, and feelings - it was just the way things were. America was always a very conservative country, at least by today's standards, and I think we can all agree that social liberalization didn't really start happening to any measurable extent until the 1950's. (Or can we?)

When people are homogeneous in the way they operate, there is much less chance for "irreconcilable differences"... because there are fewer differences overall. When society frowns upon divorce, there are fewer divorces. The United States has the third-highest "crude divorce rate" in the world. There are countries where their societies in general frown upon divorce (even if divorce is not legally punishable), and in those countries, as could be expected, the divorce rate is much lower.

It therefore stands to reason that, if the goal is stabilization of society, steps need to be taken to stigmatize, demonize, and generally discourage divorce. Agree or disagree? (If you disagree, I'd like an explanation of why you feel that divorce is not a bad thing when considering its effect on stabilization, or perhaps destabilization, of society.)

Understand that I have gone through a divorce, so it's not like I'm just thumping my tub from an outsider's perspective. I know what it's like, full well, and what tends to cause it.
Quote:
"I was discussing gay marriage on another thread"... " a growing portion of the population supporting gay marriage,..., say that they support it because it helps stabilize society for a certain group of people..."


Your conjoining SSM with marraige as a stabalizing force in society...have no real link.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:58 AM
 
79,821 posts, read 41,025,382 times
Reputation: 16816
I can't answer because as I said in another thread, I care less who another person wants to spend their life with.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:29 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,908,851 times
Reputation: 1795
IMO the higher divorce rate is probably a legacy of the religious whims of folk that frown upon stuff like BC and pre-marital sex. We all know teens do it so why pretend that this is not a natural part of growing up. The best thing in this case is to provide correct sex ed, condoms, etc and let them experiment. How many of the divorces are as a result of shotgun weddings, how many are as a result of marrying young simply to have a license to bonk? Folk that marry closer to their 30s tend to be more mature and I would hazard a guess they last longer.

Living in sin as it is known is a good thing as if sex is all there was, at least that rules out a nasty divorce.

I did everything against religion norms, had me in excess of 20 girls, insisted my wife live with me first to see if we had more than simple physical attraction. I married just shy of my 28th birthday, my wife was 3.5 years younger and we were together w/o a hiccup for 30 years before she suddenly died.

Divorce IMO is so high due to societal pressures.

There are of course other tales of folk marrying as virgins and never separating. I do not think there is a one size fits all so each one should work out what works best for them.

All I know is if I had married the 1st girl I bonked, I would be a divorcee statistic.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:35 AM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,039,579 times
Reputation: 6390
There will be gay people soon getting married and divorced every 6 months.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,212 posts, read 13,188,224 times
Reputation: 9839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
There will be gay people soon getting married and divorced every 6 months.
I know! It is terrible that homosexuals can now do something that ONLY heterosexuals have been allowed to do.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:58 AM
 
4,130 posts, read 4,266,323 times
Reputation: 3041
I don't believe there was another thread, and when I plug this junk into google the first thing I come up with is this american stinker article...

Articles: Divorce Rates Threaten Marriage More Than a DOMA Repeal

With zero evidence linked that high divorce rates destabilize society, just a link that says what the divorce rates are. Provide some evidence that marriage is stabilizing to society, and forcing people to stay married helps. There is harm to children in relationships with divorce, but it is found parents constantly fighting harms children more than divorce and even where there are issues stability after divorce helps considerably. Forcing people to stay in a marriage they don't want with a person they don't like is not going to help people get along during, or after, a marriage.

Personally I think people get married to fast, and too young, before they really get to know each other or even themselves. Many push too fast to have children putting strain on them and their finances just as they are starting out. A loving home is more important than the sexual orientation of the people involved, and there is no way a home can be loving if the parents are forced to stay married if they no longer love each other.
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Old 09-01-2013, 02:05 PM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,934 posts, read 4,464,514 times
Reputation: 3290
I agree with most of what has been posted here.

Surely the conditions that lead to parents fighting constantly (which I'm sure devastates kids, as my brother and I were plenty affected even though my parents didn't start fighting constantly until we were both teenagers) are also the conditions that lead to divorce.

So we have to talk about the reasons why discord arises in marital relationships. I say that it arises for the same reason why it arises in any other relationship... fundamental differences in the way people think, which is in itself caused by the encouragement of free thinking combined with the endless phantasmagoria of propaganda to which people are constantly subjected. It's an interesting dichotomy, almost like politicians are talking out of both sides of their mouths. They want Americans to be free thinkers (or at least they say that so that we will think America is so much better than those repressed countries in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East) and then they promote the development and perpetuation of a propaganda machine which seeks to indoctrinate people to the point where we all think a certain way. That contrast is not going to produce good results.
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Old 09-01-2013, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,140 posts, read 35,331,354 times
Reputation: 13609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
There will be gay people soon getting married and divorced every 6 months.
Actually the divorce rate is much higher for heterosexual couples than it is for homosexuals who are married...

The vast majority of gay marriages in Denmark are male-male, and only 14 percent of these end in divorce. Perhaps one of the reasons is that no women are involved, as in heterosexual marriages women are twice as likely to initiate a divorce as men are.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,894 posts, read 17,603,337 times
Reputation: 6461
Have no idea what the stats are on this topic. But i can tell ya this, i have gay friends who have been together as couples for over 20 years.

I have straight as in straight as a board friends, who some are married less then two years, and already in divorce court. What's the point. Why get married. If a couple has any type of problems from the time they are dating, really thing marriage is going to wisk the problem away.

Think with your brain, too many divorce cases, and gees well most are all striaght heterosexual couples. Today a couple gets married with the idea of well if this does not work out, divorce is a option. Already sabotaging their new marriage.

Last edited by california-jewel; 09-01-2013 at 05:56 PM..
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