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Old 09-27-2013, 03:19 PM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,457,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
The most disadvantaged would still not be able to afford most private schools.
There are not enough private schools to support those that would want to go to them.
MILLIONS of children would be left behind to rot in schools that are not providing a good education.
Better idea fix the Public Schools.
Interesting logic:
Millions would be left behind? But millions are already left behind! So how preventing vouchers helps with the current situation?
Everyone suffering is better then only a part?
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,765,227 times
Reputation: 24863
The schools in my community seem to be doing a very good job of educating my neighbor's kids.

The only reason I see for vouchers is they would let the bigots and RW crazies use my money to make their kids just like them by making private schools more affordable.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:23 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 21,999,290 times
Reputation: 5455
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The schools in my community seem to be doing a very good job of educating my neighbor's kids.

The only reason I see for vouchers is they would let the bigots and RW crazies use my money to make their kids just like them by making private schools more affordable.
No it would allow those parents in your community to pick what school they want their kids to go to. If your schools are doing such a great job like you claim then nobody would change right? Why not give folks the option though? I know it's against all liberal logic letting folks have a choice. Your just used to the old do what your told and eat it.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,711,762 times
Reputation: 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMORE View Post
Simple question I would imagine; I generally approve of school vouchers but I also approve of public education as well. I think vouchers could create a system in which the most economically disadvantaged would be able to go to schools that teach more to their liking as opposed to public schools. With school vouchers I do believe in a income threshold, millionaires shouldn't get vouchers but as I said previously those who are economically disadvantaged do. With a reduction in students attending public school the teachers could also focus more on each particular student.

Of course with vouchers I think it would need to be like financial aid in regards to disbursement but excess cash wouldn't be available to avoid fraud within the system.
The screams of rage from people who don't want to give handouts to the poor is one reason you won't see what's in bold. Especially when you consider that the people eligible may already be receiving government benefits like subsidized housing.

I think you are honestly looking for an answer, but there are far more logistics to consider than you have here. For example, let's say you took an ordinary K-8 school with two classes per grade, and you gave a voucher to the poorest student in each class, and that voucher was worth $5000, a number that will get you into some religious schools that are subsidized by their churches. (There probably aren't too many independent schools that cost less than $5K.) That's $90000 gone from the budget of the school, with no reduction in costs to the school because you can't go from two classes of 25 students to one class of 48. Those 18 kids who got vouchers don't make a dent in reducing the operating expenses, but do reduce the budget significantly for the kids left behind. In this scenario, you would need to offer vouchers to ten kids per class to see real cost savings at the public school, but now you have taken almost a million away from the school budget. Depending on the community, there may not be enough private school placements to take this many kids anyway, and schools that open overnight to cash in vouchers are not likely to be a marked improvement in educational quality.

The abridged version - you can't provide real choices to a significant number of kids without decimating public school resources, even if there were enough private schools to handle a significant number.

Tons of public money is already being funneled into private hands via charter schools. Instituting vouchers would only increase that practice. For some reason, people who pout about the economic inefficiency of public schools like to think that private ventures are somehow beyond graft and inefficiency themselves. In a private system propped up by public money it's true that less money would go to teacher compensation - it would wind up in the pockets of stakeholders, not with students.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:18 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,818,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The schools in my community seem to be doing a very good job of educating my neighbor's kids.

The only reason I see for vouchers is they would let the bigots and RW crazies use my money to make their kids just like them by making private schools more affordable.
The worst argument I have seen today.

It is not up to you what education someone receives and who they receive it from.

Those private schools you hate so much are the most succeful schools in the nation. Are you affraid that someone can do something better than the government?
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,354,912 times
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IL state senator and former Obama ally James Meeks has been pushing for vouchers for several years. He was tired of seeing inner city black children so ill-served by public schools.
James Meeks Would Push School Voucher Program For 50,000 Students As Mayor

The problem is that the NEA is #4 on the all time top political donor list, and the NEA is not very interested in the well-being of inner-city black children, who after all do not pay union dues.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:21 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 21,999,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
The worst argument I have seen today.

It is not up to you what education someone receives and who they receive it from.

Those private schools you hate so much are the most succeful schools in the nation. Are you affraid that someone can do something better than the government?
That is exactly what liberals and the teachers union is afraid of.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,717,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post

"The most disadvantaged would still not be able to afford most private schools.

BS. You give the parents the $ per head they would be able to send their kids to any school they wanted.
Really?
Non faith based private schools trend highly selective.
Non faith based private schools trend very high end.

The tuition for the closest non faith based private school, Pre K-8th grade in my area is $18,000 a year, plus fees.

Faith based private high schools trend high selective and in my area run $12-18K a year.

It's estimated that about 10% ( 8 million +/- ) of all children attend private schools. Enrollment has been consistently declining since the 90's.

Most private schools in the U.S. are operated by the Catholic church.

The Netherlands and Sweden have school voucher programs and it's viewed as a socialistic policy.

Some Libertarians believe that there should be no public education nor compulsory education. It's up to the parent to fund the education of their children, or not.

As for me, I think all schools are good. It's the kids that muck them up.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:33 PM
 
6,331 posts, read 5,208,910 times
Reputation: 1640
Public funds to private companies is usually not a good thing.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:36 PM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,940,833 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
The worst argument I have seen today.

It is not up to you what education someone receives and who they receive it from.

Those private schools you hate so much are the most succeful schools in the nation. Are you affraid that someone can do something better than the government?
Most voucher I would guess go to charter schools and not private. We are having problem in our state with charters not making the grade and no mechanism to close them...so now kids are lingering in a for profit schools with no way[yet to date] to close the failing charters.



Quote:
Of the 10 districts rated academically unacceptable by the state in Bexar County last year, all were charters, with turnover ranging from 38 percent to 65 percent. High turnover has been a smoke signal of impending closure for some charter schools.
It's harder for charter schools to keep teachers - San Antonio Express-News

Quote:

A top state senator said Wednesday that a new law dramatically expanding the number of charter schools allowed in Texas might never have passed if the authority to approve new charters hadn’t been stripped from the State Board of Education.

Dan Patrick heads the influential Education Committee in the Texas Senate and authored the law, which the Legislature approved overwhelmingly. It increases the maximum number of charter school licenses from 215 now to 305 by 2019 — the largest expansion of its kind in Texas since 2001.

It also shifts approval of new charters from the State Board of Education to Michael Williams, the commissioner of education appointed by Gov. Rick Perry. That’s angered many of the board’s 15 members, some of whom have noted that they’re elected while Williams is not.

Patrick is a tea-party favorite from Houston who is running for lieutenant governor.
...Also the authority to close failing charters.

Senator, Texas Board of Education clash over charter schools | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

Not everything is peachy in Happy Valley.
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