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Why do you think this seems to be polarizing us further as opposed to pushing us more towards the center?
The Constitution is being violated nearly daily. You want people to go sit in a corner and sulk or what?
If you don't like polarization, then stop violating the Constitution and restore it.
Just some friendly advice, voluntarily restoring the Constitution would be cheaper --- all the way around in terms of blood and money -- than having the Polarized do whatever is necessary to restore the Constitution.
Government is always ineffective, wasteful, and unresponsive. It always will be. That is, by nature, the precise definition of government.
It's just that one side believes it should control everyone and everything, and the sane people look at it and its history and say "you have got to be freaking insane!!!"
This was the most dogmatic and dumb post I have read in a while. Government does many things that no one else will do, because they are not profitable in the near term. While government will tend to be less innovative than the private sector in many things, I don't think that any of the absolute truths you lay out are absolute, or very truthful. This pure partisan ideology is why the GOP is circling the drain. They are so busy proclaiming their braindead decrees, they cannot effectively lead anyone except their own fundamentalist followers.
Why is it then ~ that the conservative right is taking such a hit these days? Because your views are NOT the view of most Americans. Most Americans are NOT extremists and you are. Simple as that
Teabaggers in office should enjoy they time they have had. It's coming to an end.
I'm not engaging in a popularity contest.
Perhaps there's very few people who clearly say what they're for, like I do. And even fewer in the political system who are willing to DO what they know they should.
You MIGHT be able to win office by demonizing good people and by promising to steal from a few to give to the many.
It does not make you right, moral, or good.
And if you don't care about those things, then I am truly vindicated.
This was the most dogmatic and dumb post I have read in a while. Government does many things that no one else will do, because they are not profitable in the near term. While government will tend to be less innovative than the private sector in many things, I don't think that any of the absolute truths you lay out are absolute, or very truthful. This pure partisan ideology is why the GOP is circling the drain. They are so busy proclaiming their braindead decrees, they cannot effectively lead anyone except their own fundamentalist followers.
I am absolutely correct.
You can't even refute it. You agree to it, but then go on to say that even so, you still want it in charge of things, to be done badly, inefficiently, and incompetently.
And then have the nerve to complain that ** I ** am unreasonable.
It gives people a feeling of control when they feel so out of control. We can't just waltz up to our Congress critters, or the President, and tell them what crap work they are doing, or what piles of horse manure we think they are....and we're mad. Even the ones who think they are getting everything they want, are not happy. If they were, they wouldn't be spending all this time on CD insulting people left and right.
So, we're all unhappy, and we can't just tell Congress, the Pres, or anyone else for that matter, how we feel. Well, we can write a strongly worded letter but we know that it won't be seen by the very person we want to read it. So we take it out on each other...because we have to release somehow...and we actually think that we can change any minds by doing so. It makes us feel as if we have some sort of control. Fact is, I don't think we've had control for awhile.
Thank you for your thoughts.
I got a good laugh when I checked back on this thread because while few people are really answering the question, nearly all are acting out the problem it refers to.
It just seems to me that in light of overwhelming evidence of the detrimental effects of having an increasingly divided and self-destructive government, people would see that the polarization is getting us nowhere fast and would start to see the sense in moderation. That's what this ordeal, and reading these forums, has done for me. It's shown me the error of standing at either extreme, because what's happening is hurting the country. It's making me think the only alternative to this path of self-destruction is to move to the center within talking distance instead of yelling at each other from the far corners. It's making me want to listen to what the other side really wants, objectively, and think about how we might get to a better place for all of us. This current political climate, among the government and among the people, is unsustainable. The rest of the world sees it, so why can't we?
I think part of the problem is that two opposing forces are fiercely defending two different Americas right now. The trouble is, in reality there is just one nation to share between us. Nobody wins if we tear it apart. If everybody is unreasonable, no reasonable solutions will ever be found.
I think part of the problem is that two opposing forces are fiercely defending two different Americas right now. The trouble is, in reality there is just one nation to share between us. Nobody wins if we tear it apart. If everybody is unreasonable, no reasonable solutions will ever be found.
The only REASONABLE solutions are those which are reason. That is not found by compromise, but by doing the reasoned thing. Reason must win, plain and simple, or we will have unreasonable government.
So, there is no valid defense of compromise when it is wrong. Doing it "less wrong" because someone wants to do it "more wrong" is still wrong.
It is unseemly to expect me to compromise my morality. Same with all the TEA Party people.
Everything the Democrats want is immoral.
Of course there's no common ground. A man walks up to you and says "I deserve, and I am taking, a large share of your money and what you have, because I feel like giving it to people I want to benefit. Hand it over or I'll take it by force". There is no common ground to be had with him. There is no moral common ground with the left. It is immoral, totally.
These are ravings, not the rational views of a person who knows they must share governance with 300 million other people. Black and white thinking feels good, but it is not what out country is about. You want that, head to Afghanistan, or Saudi Arabia. Here, in the realm of reality and plurality, we try to govern ourselves, and we are varied in our perspectives. Even so, we have done a good job of compromising and improving our country for over 200 years and we were once the envy of the world, because we developed a system that could balance the diverse views of a diversity of people. All that is thrown out the window with the new Tea Party types. They are incapable to grasping the most basic truth of democracy, that the people will speak. No one gets to speak for all the people, or to undermine the will of the majority when they don't get their way. There are times when a minority must stand on principle, but claiming that taxes and government spending are moral outrages is just idiotic. They are the tools whereby we govern ourselves. It is patriotic to pay taxes and support and work to improve our government (criticize it yes, but support it nonetheless), and it treasonous to try to sabotages or destroy it.
These are ravings, not the rational views of a person who knows they must share governance with 300 million other people. Black and white thinking feels good, but it is not what out country is about. You want that, head to Afghanistan, or Saudi Arabia. Here, in the realm of reality and plurality, we try to govern ourselves, and we are varied in our perspectives. Even so, we have done a good job of compromising and improving our country for over 200 years and we were once the envy of the world, because we developed a system that could balance the diverse views of a diversity of people. All that is thrown out the window with the new Tea Party types. They are incapable to grasping the most basic truth of democracy, that the people will speak. No one gets to speak for all the people, or to undermine the will of the majority when they don't get their way. There are times when a minority must stand on principle, but claiming that taxes and government spending are moral outrages is just idiotic. They are the tools whereby we govern ourselves. It is patriotic to pay taxes and support and work to improve our government (criticize it yes, but support it nonetheless), and it treasonous to try to sabotages or destroy it.
No, I do not "share governance" with 300 million other people. That notion is truly wild ranting.
I don't govern at all. I live in a nation with clear, specific, and inflexible rules about what those who hold office can and cannot do. THAT is not up for compromise.
I do NOT compromise on what those rules are.
What they are allowed to do is and always will be a compromise. Which is why we give them so little to do, so they can do few compromised things to us.
Show me where it says "the Supreme court shall, in all cases, decide what this Constitution means".
NOWHERE does it say that.
It delegates its meaning TO NOBODY. It stands, as it is written, as its own standard.
I defy you to provide ANY argument that says that the Constitution created 3 branches of government, and gave 1 of them the power to decide what it wanted the others to do and how. It did not. It said the federal government will have a court system, and the supreme court will be the highest court, above which there is no legal power. It also gave the Congress the power to write the law. And, it gave the states the power to modify the Constitution, to FORCE the SCOTUS and even the Congress to do what they wanted, if need be. That's why you'll find that there's more than one means of introducing amendments. It was never intended that ANY branch of government could obstruct the states or people from the plain meaning of the law that it is inferior to.
challenge accepted.
first of all, the constitution does indeed need consistent interpretation and review. as much as i love the constitution and its bare-bones plainness, there is still a significant amount of legitimate disagreement as to what it means in certain situations, or how to translate those declarations into applicable law. and even more apparent, there is a significant number of cheaters in government that would stretch and convolute the rulings of the constitution for their own gain or that of their political faction. not to mention the fact that the country has changed enormously since the ratification of the constitution, and to declare it an immutable document would be a disservice to our own country.
next, all federal judges, not just the SCOTUS, have the specific mandate to follow the constitution when making a legal ruling. as the highest judicial body in the nation, with the jurisdiction of ANY law passed in the country, the supreme court does therefore have the role of determining constitutionality of the acts of congress and the white house.
further, even before the constitution was ratified, the highest court of a governmental body has often held the power of judicial review, and such was the case with the state governments pre-constitution. state governments would rule on whether or not local legislations were in accordance with their state constitutions or not.
then the constitution was enacted, and though the task was not specified of the supreme court in the constitution itself, the supreme court has since then adopted, as other courts in their own jurisdiction have before it, the role of determining the constitutionality of the acts of the other executive and legislative branches.
clearly, the numbnuts and imbeciles in the other two branches of government (on both sides, i might add) need a watchdog, and whether you like it or not, the supreme court has the natural, historical, and legal precedent to undertake the task of judicial review.
Quote:
The power of judicial review has been implied from these provisions [Article III and IV of the Constitution] based on the following reasoning. It is the inherent duty of the courts to determine the applicable law in any given case. The Supremacy Clause says "[t]his Constitution" is the "supreme law of the land." The Constitution therefore is the fundamental law of the United States. Federal statutes are the law of the land only when they are "made in pursuance" of the Constitution. State constitutions and statutes are valid only if they are consistent with the Constitution. Any law contrary to the Constitution is void. The federal judicial power extends to all cases "arising under this Constitution." As part of their inherent duty to determine the law, the federal courts have the duty to interpret and apply the Constitution and to decide whether a federal or state statute conflicts with the Constitution. All judges are bound to follow the Constitution. If there is a conflict, the federal courts have a duty to follow the Constitution and to treat the conflicting statute as unenforceable. The Supreme Court has final appellate jurisdiction in all cases arising under the Constitution, so the Supreme Court has the ultimate authority to decide whether statutes are consistent with the Constitution.[11]
It is unseemly to expect me to compromise my morality. Same with all the TEA Party people.
Everything the Democrats want is immoral.
Of course there's no common ground. A man walks up to you and says "I deserve, and I am taking, a large share of your money and what you have, because I feel like giving it to people I want to benefit. Hand it over or I'll take it by force". There is no common ground to be had with him. There is no moral common ground with the left. It is immoral, totally.
You say morals but what it's immortal about welfare and helping your fellow (hu)man? What is so bad about those who make more pay a higher tax rat?
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