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It's not imprisonment, it's taxing (in the case of Obamacare.)
If I refuse, what happens eventually?
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
The issue with the flat tax, one who makes 40K in taxes may need more what they make than say someone who makes 500K. Now yes, 40K after 17% (the tax rate many people point to for making the flat tax rate) pays $6,800 vs. $85,000 for the person making 500K but that is still only 33.2K you get to keep after taxes. Not all areas are sustainable to live in (without including Obamacare costs) already. Now compared to the current rates, couple making 40K, you actually pay less at 15% ($6,000) versus 39.6% for a couple making 500K (198,000 is given)
The issue is people are the lower end of the spectrum are hurt more by flattenning out the tax code. Unless we eliminate taxes, somebody loses from changing the tax code.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". You have studied the socialist movement well, comrade.
hmm, so we (a liberal-lean middle and a financial conservative agree on something) but at the same time have different ways in achieving the same thing. As a conservative I also believe that I must "sharpen the saw". I can't remember the writer but it means take care of myself. If I am in good health financially I am able to take care of myself and my family, make sure I don't become a government dependent and after that am able to help others. If I am not in good financial help, helping others will only put me and my family in danger of becoming a government dependent. If I am being hammered before being able to take care of myself and my family then it is human nature to start to begrudge helping people who demand, expect, when they didn't earn it. They will not learn if we keep handing it all to them. I see people like this as greedy, especially when they keep doing the same failed thing over and over. I see a split here.
The biggest player in dividing the country is the propaganda news media owned by obama, along with his kennel of lap dogs and straw dogs.
The media fires the indignation, obama alone cannot adavance his political agenda without help form his propaganda machine and criminal federal agencies crushing political opposition.
Agreed. Not all Dems/Liberals want to grow government, though. You won't believe this, but it's true.
I believe in smart restructuring of existing programs and re-tasking of existing staff. If we could all work together, we might accomplish this and even be able to do some trimming.
Liberal activists often run their organizations on a shoestring. An admitted flaw in the thinking is that while we can function fine this way, the government has to be huge. I happen to think that's ridiculous. We have all seen that bigger is not better. Smarter is better, and with co-operation, we could take ideas from both sides and make changes that benefit everyone while not offending Conservative fiscal principles. At the local level nationwide are Liberal-minded programs with Conservative fiscal approaches, that persist by encouraging personal responsibility. With work, smart people of all stripes could incorporate these approaches at the federal level.
It would take one major concession on each side...Libs would have to stop seeing government money as an inexhaustible resource, and Cons would have to be willing to see past stereotypes about the poor. We have to be willing to teach each other, though, not lecture. And we'd have to be willing to learn from each other, not scoff. It could work if we wanted it to. Most of our problems, including this shutdown/debt ceiling mess, are about political will. Everybody wants everything and nobody's happy.
The biggest player in dividing the country is the propaganda news media owned by obama, along with his kennel of lap dogs and straw dogs.
The media fires the indignation, obama alone cannot adavance his political agenda without help form his propaganda machine and criminal federal agencies crushing political opposition.
A right winger calling mainstream media propaganda is hillarious. Faux News quotes satirical stories as fact without retracting (spouting it multiple times to millions of viewers online then retracting to thousands of follower on twitter is not a retraction). The fact check organizations (who call out BOTH sides by the way) have far more work given to them by Faux news and right wingers - they even stopped fact checking Bachman because it was too much work, because practically everything from her is BS.
If you get your news from Faux news, Rush and the like then you should NEVER call out anyone as propaganda.
The biggest player in dividing the country is the propaganda news media owned by obama, along with his kennel of lap dogs and straw dogs.
The media fires the indignation, obama alone cannot adavance his political agenda without help form his propaganda machine and criminal federal agencies crushing political opposition.
Then we should be making collective demands on our media. We are the consumers. If we reject a product, it fails no matter who is pushing it on us.
Perhaps there's very few people who clearly say what they're for, like I do. And even fewer in the political system who are willing to DO what they know they should.
You MIGHT be able to win office by demonizing good people and by promising to steal from a few to give to the many.
It does not make you right, moral, or good.
And if you don't care about those things, then I am truly vindicated.
And your so-called morals ~ are NOT going win a national office. Your morals are not my morals. The tea party does NOT speak for me and I absolutely do not consider them moral. Hate speech is not moral. Isolationism is not moral.
Most of America are moderates. They don't like what they see in the tea party. They do not consider them to be moral.
And talk about demonizing! Has there ever been a President more demonized than Obama?
It has turned people off and rightly so. Your constant repetition of a lie - does not make you right, moral or good either.
You'll see it here - everybody already has their mind made up who to blame for everything and when it get tough, the blame just gets more intense - and blind.
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Originally Posted by Ringo1
AND there you have it ~ extremists on the right cannot or are not willing to meet in the middle. There is a small, but loud, contingent of the tea party that simply hates government. How do you compromise with THAT?
Why did you include my post above as extremist on the right?
The issue is people are the lower end of the spectrum are hurt more by flattenning out the tax code. Unless we eliminate taxes, somebody loses from changing the tax code.
EVERYONE loses when you tax them.
That's why, if you are going to tax incomes, the ONLY moral standard is equal proportion for all, and make that enough to maintain absolutely the minimum the federal government must do, which, today, is about 1 trillion.
And your so-called morals ~ are NOT going win a national office.
So it's your belief that the way to win national office is to promise to steal from some to buy the votes of others. Got it.
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Your morals are not my morals.
So, your morals are based on the notion that it is immoral to NOT steal from some to buy the votes of others.
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The tea party does NOT speak for me and I absolutely do not consider them moral.
Of course, they stand in the way of stealing more to buy more votes.
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Hate speech is not moral.
Of course you you think it is. Look at the hate speech about the TEA Party you engage in.
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Isolationism is not moral.
Isolationism is neither moral nor immoral. It is simply a short-sighted economic and trade policy.
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Most of America are moderates.
No, most Americans, like in the days of the revolution, have no idea what to believe. Thus, they have no beliefs and wander to and fro about the political landscape, flitting from this to that, with no coherent notion of what government's role should be in society.
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They don't like what they see in the tea party.
They know nothing about the TEA Party, only your hate speech.
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They do not consider them to be moral.
They make no such judgment, since they don't know anything about them, except the lies people like you tell.
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And talk about demonizing! Has there ever been a President more demonized than Obama?
In my lifetime, there hasn't been a more corrupt, incompetent, self-serving, dishonest, and hostile president.
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It has turned people off and rightly so. Your constant repetition of a lie - does not make you right, moral or good either.
I do not lie. Period. If you think what I say is untrue, then YOU are wrong, not me.
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