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The reason for your logic failure is that your argument was based on a false premise. While EMTALA guarantees stabilization in case of critical medical emergencies, EMTALA doesn't (for example) provide chemotherapy for those suffering from cancer, EMTALA doesn't guarantee treatment for potentially debilitating diseases. It requires only provision of stabilization. Many hospitals go above and beyond what EMTALA requires but they're not required to, and they don't provide costly treatments, such as for cancer.
I think there are a heck of a lot of people who do not understand the limitations of EMTALA. Best case scenario, one gets referred to a specialist. No law requires any MD or medical facility to treat anyone who is uninsured, underinsured or cannot pay for treatment in advance.
Perhaps your perspective is that people who get cancer or leukemia or diabetes or heart disease should just be "flushed down the toilet". Reasonable, compassionate people disagree with that assumption.
Major Cancer Treatment centers routinely decline prospective patients without insurance and/or who are under insured and/or are unable to pay out of pocket for treatment before it is rendered.
Logic failure. "Everyone had healthcare" you said. Then you said that there won't be enough doctors to go around. The population didn't double. ACA subsidized plans only cover essential benefits, the most basic healthcare. So how did we suddenly run out of doctors, given that ACA doesn't do anything new as you tried to make it seem.
The population didn't double but Democare is causing Doctors to retire earlier than they would have otherwise. Some are just getting out of medicine, if they have alternatives. Many are reconsidering getting into the profession altogether. This may have a more devastating effect on medical care than affirmative action ever did.
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The reason for your logic failure is that your argument was based on a false premise. While EMTALA guarantees stabilization in case of critical medical emergencies, EMTALA doesn't (for example) provide chemotherapy for those suffering from cancer, EMTALA doesn't guarantee treatment for potentially debilitating diseases. It requires only provision of stabilization. Many hospitals go above and beyond what EMTALA requires but they're not required to, and they don't provide costly treatments, such as for cancer.
Perhaps your perspective is that people who get cancer or leukemia or diabetes or heart disease should just be "flushed down the toilet". Reasonable, compassionate people disagree with that assumption.
You fail by throwing out program names without explaining what they are. What is EMTALA. Before you call me ignorant for not knowing, let me remind you that I could throw out plenty of words or nomenclature that you wouldn't understand either.
It isn't Republicans that created a plan that has what some people have described as death squads.
So if it works you will be fine with it then right?
I doubt anything ever will be without an opportunity for improvement, but going from a system whereby 55 million Americans don't have access to affordable healthcare to a system whereby only 30 million Americans don't have access to affordable healthcare is an improvement.
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Originally Posted by BoomBen
Yeah people do not realize we are already paying for all of that.
It depends on what you mean by "paying". A lot of the cost is hidden from traditional means of counting it, because it is the human cost, paid solely by poor people, of living without access to affordable healthcare. These human costs come in the form of the impact of degraded health on one's life, reduced productivity, and reduced longevity. ACA's main impact is making much of this human cost, which as you correctly point out, is already being paid, countable financially. It turns these hidden costs into visible costs so that the injustice can be more clearly seen, and more effectively addressed.
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Originally Posted by Cruzincat
The population didn't double but Democare is causing Doctors to retire earlier than they would have otherwise.
Some but not many. But heck if you're sincerely concerned about that, instead of just spewing inane partisan vitriol, then work with me to change those aspects of the healthcare system that cause doctors to retire earlier. I guarantee you that they aren't retiring earlier just because there are poor people showing up in their waiting rooms now.
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Originally Posted by Cruzincat
You fail by throwing out program names without explaining what they are.
If you don't know what you're talking about, then you shouldn't be posting about it.
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Originally Posted by Cruzincat
What is EMTALA.
You yourself brought it up. It is utterly remarkable that you didn't actually know what it was called. How embarrassing for you.
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Originally Posted by Cruzincat
Before you call me ignorant for not knowing, let me remind you that I could throw out plenty of words or nomenclature that you wouldn't understand either.
First: I know this issue - you clearly don't. Second: You cannot find anything that I've mentioned that I don't know the name for. Third: I would have enough respect for myself to look up a word I don't know rather than making myself appear foolish by making it clear that I don't know the subject that I chose to post a thread about.
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Originally Posted by Cruzincat
It isn't Republicans that created a plan that has what some people have described as death squads.
Maybe you can inform us as to what medical industry is going to reap the rewards of Democare. So far it seems that every element of medicine is retracting at this point, laying off personnel, cutting services, and more. Don't include the lobbyists in your answer. We know they are getting rich off Democare, no matter which side they are on.
Why should the medical industry reap rewards?
Every element of medicine is retracting? How so? Perhaps it's a regional thing. My local hospital is fighting tooth and nail to prevent another major hospital healthcare system from entering the local market because they do not want to compete with another 500 pound gorilla.
Hospitals use their profits to kill or acquire the competition to control the market. This can and does lead to lay-offs in some cases.
Status:
"Smartened up and walked away!"
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Originally Posted by Cruzincat
Stop vacuously responding to posts you don't agree with and maybe you'd get some respect.
I more often than not disagree with bUU - but in this instance he's right. The plan was formulated on Romneycare in Mass.
Also, bUU has my respect. Although we may disagree, he states his points or objections and moves on. He seldom resorts to the name calling, and stereotyping that so many on these boards do.
We're here to discuss - and that's what he does - may take me awhile to figure out what he's saying as his vocabulary far out ranks mine
So if it works you will be fine with it then right?
I am sure it can work, but at what cost. You can make Democare work, but what good is it if we enter another Great Depression? If you put a significant number of people out of work, who will pay for it? It will only get worse and the bigger burden you place on those that are working, the less incentive they have to continue working. Under impending Democare, we have already seen the ratio of part time to full time jobs increase dramatically. Those part time workers won't have employer sponsored healthcare insurance, and will only have the exchanges available. The taxpayers (that still pay taxes) will have to subsidize these exchanges because the people in them only have part time jobs.
There is no way to know how far we will have fallen down the rabbit hole, oncd Democare is fully implemented.
I am totally willing to give the Democrats all the credit for Democare by calling it just what it is. Why don't you like the idea?
We only have a two party system. If anything is legislated for the benefit of all Americans, not just shareholders, I'm all for it, whether it be a republican or democrat. But I will say this, the republican party is pathetic in this day of age and better grow a pair otherwise they are in danger of being marginalized.
I doubt anything ever will be without an opportunity for improvement, but going from a system whereby 55 million Americans don't have access to affordable healthcare to a system whereby only 30 million Americans don't have access to affordable healthcare is an improvement.
This is where you lose the argument. How many of those 55 million actually had no access to healthcare?
ZERO! They may not have had insurance but they did/do have access to healthcare. This is what proponents of Democare always forget or at least avoid, when discussing their plan.
By the way, since I soon have to toddle off to work, Why do you object to the whole thread I started? All I want to do is give credit to those who have given us Democare. If it is so great, why would you object to that? I am willing to give the Democrats credit for it, even if it succeeds beyond anyon'e expectations. hey, if it does that, I may even become a Democrat!
You fail by throwing out program names without explaining what they are. What is EMTALA. Before you call me ignorant for not knowing, let me remind you that I could throw out plenty of words or nomenclature that you wouldn't understand either.
It isn't Republicans that created a plan that has what some people have described as death squads.
EMTALA is the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, a 1986 law that requires most hospital ERs to accept and stabilize anyone who comes through the door, regardless of that person's ability to pay for medical services. As a result, on average 55% of all ERS visits are uncompensated. in some areas the rate is substantially higher. The cost of these uncompensated visits becomes the cost of doing business and is reflected in the cost paid by those with insurance or out of pocket resources to take care of business.
The original version of ACA contained a provision to create objective MD comprised panels to evaluate medications and treatment processes, the way it is done in other developed nations. For example, if medication A and B have the same outcomes, there is no need to prescribe the higher costing medication. For a group who claims they did not have an opportunity to read the ACA, they sure did find this needle in the haystack and pronounce such Comparative- Effectiveness Panels to be " death squads. It was subsequently withdrawn from the ACA due to this mischaracterization.
Congress has no interest in doing anything meaningful and contrary to the interests of lobbyists that could make healthcare more affordable.
Sure, it was Obama's plan, but now the Democrats are running with it, and there's no way Obama can be punished when/if it drives this country to ruin. The people who will still be here that can be held accountable are the blind followers of Obama, also known as Democrats. If they want to own the plan, then we have to remind the sheeple who were responsible when the "****" hits the fan.
You are aware that we've had romneycare here in MA for some years now and very successfully so. Everyone loves it, health insurance for all, hospitals are being built or expanded, new jobs, no more unnecessary medical tests. It works!
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