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Millions upon millions are still not going to be able to afford health care insurance. After being fined they are going to be in an even worse place as far as paying for any medical bills. What are you going to say to them? Too bad? You should have been very rich or quit your job and then you'll get others to pay it for you?
Bingo! Without insurance NO ONE except the ultra rich can afford medical care. Unfortunately you and your conservative buddies are ok with that and have NOTHING to offer that would remedy the situation.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
It's been noted over and over that the problem was not because millions access it. Millions access Drudge, eBay, Amazon. The problem is it's fundamentally broke.
Ok, the last time I'm going to say this: Comparing a website that caters to millions of users is fundamentally different that one that was created by a 12 year old kid on a home computer. If you can't understand that logic then I'm not going to explain it any further.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Yes, I understand.....What I don't understand is your statement.
Yeah, it's become very clear that you don't. Like I said; I'm not going to try and explain it to you any further. It just falls on deaf ears like so many other conservatives.
Bingo! Without insurance NO ONE except the ultra rich can afford medical care. Unfortunately you and your conservative buddies are ok with that and have NOTHING to offer that would remedy the situation.
Jumping off the deep end with your preconceived stereotypes gain you nothing but a red face. I have argued for months for universal health care paid for by bringing our troops home. It's easier for you to try and demean a poster as opposed to defend your positions I suppose.
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Ok, the last time I'm going to say this: Comparing a website that caters to millions of users is fundamentally different that one that was created by a 12 year old kid on a home computer. If you can't understand that logic then I'm not going to explain it any further.
You haven't explained anything yet.
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Yeah, it's become very clear that you don't. Like I said; I'm not going to try and explain it to you any further. It just falls on deaf ears like so many other conservatives.
If you aren't willing to defend what you say, I have no idea why you bother.
Originally Posted by surfman I'm just curious to know that if 90% of peoples rates increase, and only 10% decrease... there's going to be a ton of mad people both left and right in a few months. With these facts coming to light, and if the numbers will actually be this bad; who should/will take responsibility for what appears to be impending failure?
That would be the ultimate lie; an undeniable and completely transparent untruth. I doubt that even the hardest left wing extremist would have the audacity to blame the GOP for the failure. Obama should have delayed it a year for everyone, but he doesn't negotiate with anyone. ACA is Obama's legacy, and he better get the lions share of just deserts, either way.
IMHO, the GOP is getting bashed because of their attempt to stop it, even though they were elected to do just that. On the other hand, if 90% of the population is hit with 5-150% rate hikes and higher deductibles in Jan 2014 - I get the distinct feeling the DNC will take it in the shorts by the time November rolls around.
My dear surfman, apparently you haven't been paying attention to the lefty lamestream media. OF COURSE they lie! They lie all the damn time! They blatantly lie, right to your face every time you turn on the tube. It is not difficult to believe that the GOP would get the blame, not difficult at all.
I am keeping my healthcare as are many millions of Americans.
Unless/until you can prove that not a single person in this country will retain the healthcare they paid for last year, it is not a lie.
As for the OP, what I continue to find fascinating is the number of people who are clearly ignorant of how health insurance has worked up until now. Seems to me that some large number of the people making these claims never read the details of their employer-sponsored health plans 'cause I am not seeing any differences between what I've been getting from my employer for the better part of thirty years and what these plans are offering.
Very sad, really.
Gee, I don't know... Maybe the 100.000+++ Kaiser insured who got cancellation notices might just disagree with you?
Here's the thing, I liken what's going on to walking into a restaurant, sitting down and deciding on a steak for dinner. Something you've done at this eatery for years and years without issue.
Just a steak and potato with a glass of water to drink with a cost of $14. When you order everything is fine until the manager comes over and says "I'm sorry, due to a recent change you must get a steak,potato,salad,veggie of the day,dessert and coffee and the price will now be $28.
You say "but I don't WANT or need all that stuff, I won't eat it so I don't want to pay for it".
The manager shakes his head and with a "tsk,tsk" says "Well, if you complain we'll have you arrested for creating a disturbance, have a nice day".
Riddle me this, why should a single male have to pay for a policy that covers women's health procedures?
Exactly!
To be clear; This isn't a bash Obamacare thread. I just want to point out a few things that we now know, and ask a simple question.
1: We were promised that rates would go down.
Today on CSPAN the head of NY health services admitted that only 10% of the people signing up on their exchange would see their rates go down after subsidies. She admitted that 90% will pay more. I'm seeing far more people complaining about rates going up, than people with positive reviews.
2: We were told that we could keep our existing plan if we wanted to.
People are now getting their letters of cancellation en'masse because nearly all private plans will not meet the ACA minimums. Things like middle aged and elderly being required to have pregnancy coverage.
3: It's coming to light that the exchanges are intentionally shielding the ability to anonymously shop the plans. They require to input all of your info first, and then present a ballpark screenshot. That is, if you can make it to that point before the site locks up or crashes.
I'm just curious to know that if 90% of peoples rates increase, and only 10% decrease... there's going to be a ton of mad people both left and right in a few months. With these facts coming to light, and if the numbers will actually be this bad; who should/will take responsibility for what appears to be impending failure?
I am personally being affected in a negative way despite these and other promises I heard come out of president Obama's own mouth. Two of my doctors have sent me letters saying they will not longer be able to be my doctors as a result. That is not to mention how my deductible amounts have gone up, along with my premiums.
The sad thing is that I listened to a woman radio host (black and Obama supporter) admit Obama needed to "stretch the truth" to help get Obamacare passed. She also admitted that the OP's list and more were "stretched, but it was for the overall good of the country".
This type of mentality/excuse making seems to have no end within the left wing koolaid drinkers of the Democratic party.
Sure Bush had his koolaid drinkers as well, but much of his criticism came from the right wing of the Republicans.
Regardless, you cannot have the POTUS up there making flat out lies in an effort to get passed a totally partisan (not one (R) from either chamber of Congress) bill that affects every single person in this country, along with such a large segment of our overall budget. If it were a (R) who had done such a thing, the left would be screaming for impeachment, yet now they excuse any and everything from Obama.
If that is not the very definition of hypocrisy I don't know what is.
Trouble is that they can live with that label so long as they get what they want in the end. Honor and integrity are lost on many of them.
Most rates will go down with the tax credits. From the beginning the exchange plan rates (pre tax credit) were only expected to be about 10% lower than non exchange plans.
You can see plan rates at this link on healthcare.gov - but of course can't see your specific tax credit until you apply and enter your info. https://www.healthcare.gov/find-premium-estimates/
That's not lowering the cost of health care OR of premiums.
I could if I wanted to go re-read the plan, find them, and cut and paste them, but honestly I don't want to. There are cost control measures as part of the plan. But, to be fair, since I am too lazy to state them, you can say I'm lying and telling me that there aren't any. Fair enough.
I think I agreed with you on your point. He didn't state that "if the plan you like doesn't comply it will be disallowed from the ACA." He should have. My point was, even if he did, most people would have not heard it because they don't pay attention and they don't listen. That does not excuse him from not adding that on his talking point. I agree with you there; however, the truth of the matter is that it was always known that if a plan didn't comply--it was out of there. I knew that. I don't know how I knew that but I did. It could be as simple as that my health insurer communicated that to me.
Just as the dems did we had to pass it to know what is in it and as of today we still do not know
And this is just the SIGN UP process for Obamacare.
Wait for the actual implementation.
If the easy things can't be handled competently the rest to come is a scary thought.
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