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Okay -- so you don't care that the Obama government is collecting all the information it can, totally invading our privacy. But sometimes you do care if it's not Obama invading our privacy?
Huh? Yeah, have no idea what you're even getting at, sorry.
I don't know what "guaraneffinty" means, but I'm going to take you up it, whatever it might be.
You agree to submit to a breathalyzer on demand when you apply for a driver license. That's one of the terms of the contract you agreed to when you applied.
FAIL!
Got anything else?
HAHAHAHAHA, that is HILARIOUS! Wow. So you would gladly take a breathalyzer if you're pulled over by cops for no reason? Bulls*it.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for government to help the little man over the corporation.
They were the ones to allow it to begin with.
We already know you've happily given up your freedom and privacy. But just because you've given up isn't a persuasive argument. Instead of telling us how it's all fine and dandy with you, why not actually put forth an argument of why the rest of us should go along with you?
And half of employers means what? If Wal-Mart is performing the checks, and Joe's Shoe Shine isn't, then half the employers still means most of the jobs.
Red herring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
And the rate is declining???? Because fewer employers performed the check in 2011 than in 2010. That's not a trend. That's comparing one year against another year. A declining rate would have to involve more than two years. As I brought up earlier in the thread.
Fair enough. I didn't bring up that statistic; I just remembered reading it. It's irrelevant, anyway. Nobody's suggesting that the overwhelming majority of jobs require a credit check (are they? are you?), so as it stands today, there are still plenty of places to work where you won't have to give your permission for a credit check.
Remember, also, that employers want these positions filled. They're not placing an ad, hiring headhunters and interviewing applicants just so they can nose around in their credit files. We're people, too, you know, and we understand that stuff happens. And in a bad economy, the number of people with screwy credit is going to be fairly high. All of this stuff is taken into account when making a decision. I don't know if you've ever been in management (I think you're smart enough, but you don't seem to have the benefit of that kind of experience, based on your positions in these various threads), but there is no single thing that will disqualify ANY applicant, short of a failed drug test, a blatant and important lie on a resume, etc. But if you approach the situation with honesty, and you're a good fit in every other way, your credit history will be meaningless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
I'm not being melodramatic. So quit trying to demean me.
I wasn't demeaning you, I was calling you out on the Bugs Bunny style of drama you were infusing into your argument. "Oh, the humanity!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
Coercion is going on. That's why the law has been proposed.
We already know you've happily given up your freedom and privacy. But just because you've given up isn't a persuasive argument. Instead of telling us how it's all fine and dandy with you, why not actually put forth an argument of why the rest of us should go along with you?
You want to fight it ..go ahead.
And make sure you refuse to apply for any job requiring it as well.
You don't want employers prying into your financial troubles then by all means refuse to sign the permission form.
Follow the Dem mantra.."if you have nothing to hide…."
Actually, yes you do. In obtaining a driver's license, you make certain concessions with your private rights in order to operate a motor vehicle in the public sphere, among which is the "thou shall not drink and drive" and "thou shall submit to breathalyzer if thou givest probable cause with crappy driving" rules.
Sitting in your driveway? Nope, that is not the public sphere. But on a public road, you bet you sign over certain rights as a condition of that privilege.
So it is essentially the same kind of choice. If you want to keep your right to privacy perfectly intact, there is simply a bunch of public sphere stuff that you will be prevented from participating in. Even the most diehard libertarians like me understand ceding private rights as trade for participation in the public sphere, so long as both the ceding of the rights and the participation in the public sphere are voluntary choices.
I choose to drive a car on the public road, thus I choose to cede certain rights and assume certain responsibilities for that privilege. I choose to work for a good company at a good job making a good wage. In securing that job, I chose to let my company jump smack in the middle of my privacy. I had every right to say no to every request. I chose to be more forthcoming than all that.
Having my credit checked has happened at 3 different jobs. Whatever. Drug tested for 4 jobs. Whatever. background checked for every job I've ever held. More whatever. I've never refused because my seeking a job is voluntary, and it never seemed like a big deal to me based on the whole voluntary aspect of it.
Been doing it since the late 70's.
And I'm sure it's been going on before I got into the job market after high school.
You seem to think this just came about ?
I never had anyone request my credit report. The insane desire for more and more of a persons personal information has been a more recent problem.
If there wasn't a law when there wasn't a problem, I have no problem with that.
Actually, yes you do. In obtaining a driver's license, you make certain concessions with your private rights in order to operate a motor vehicle in the public sphere, among which is the "thou shall not drink and drive" and "thou shall submit to breathalyzer if thou givest probable cause with crappy driving" rules.
Sitting in your driveway? Nope, that is not the public sphere. But on a public road, you bet you sign over certain rights as a condition of that privilege.
So it is essentially the same kind of choice. If you want to keep your right to privacy perfectly intact, there is simply a bunch of public sphere stuff that you will be prevented from participating in. Even the most diehard libertarians like me understand ceding private rights as trade for participation in the public sphere, so long as both the ceding of the rights and the participation in the public sphere are voluntary choices.
I choose to drive a car on the public road, thus I choose to cede certain rights and assume certain responsibilities for that privilege. I choose to work for a good company at a good job making a good wage. In securing that job, I chose to let my company jump smack in the middle of my privacy. I had every right to say no to every request. I chose to be more forthcoming than all that.
Having my credit checked has happened at 3 different jobs. Whatever. Drug tested for 4 jobs. Whatever. background checked for every job I've ever held. More whatever. I've never refused because my seeking a job is voluntary, and it never seemed like a big deal to me based on the whole voluntary aspect of it.
It never was until the "great recession" put so many people into debt they couldn't pay for.
Too many living way beyond their means. When their ARMs reset and the HELOCs dried up many walked away from their debts.
Wasn't just the poor either.
I saw foreclosed sales in golf course communities.
Same community where boats and motorcycles got repossessed during the day.
Same community where people just moved in the middle of the night.
This is an upper middle class golf community no less.
In obtaining a driver's license, you make certain concessions with your private rights in order to operate a motor vehicle in the public sphere, among which is the "thou shall not drink and drive" and "thou shall submit to breathalyzer if thou givest probable cause with crappy driving" rules.
The NSA is every bit as much of an invasion as your breathalyzer example.
Much more, actually. You explicitly agree to the breathalyzer when you apply for your license. There is no permission being given wrt the NSA data gathering.
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