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If you're having sex, and you're an adult, good golly be an adult about it. Sex can always lead to pregnancy, even if you use multiple forms of birth control. If you're unable or unwilling to raise a child, then don't do adult things like have sex. Talk to your partner so you know you're on the same page. And even then her mind could change once she becomes pregnant, so take responsibility yourself.
It doesn't matter that the women can choose or not choose to have an abortion if she ends up pregnant. You have a choice before that which can prevent the problem.
A harder issue is when the man wants the child and the woman does not.
OK--now, how about you please help me out here and tell me where exactly I myself can get castrated (not sarcasm)?
Great Idea Ceist! While we're at it we should remove female's uterus after puberty too, then when they want to have a child, they have to get a consenting male to sign a contract to have a child with them before they can have their uterus replace.
That too would help reduce unwanted pregnancies, abortions, and women whining about father's having a say so, and men whining about having to pay MORE than fair share. It would also cut down on the epidemic of dead beat women who get pregnant and want to kill off their responsibilities...
I think we're on to something here!
Agreed, except perhaps we should have tubal litigation instead of the removal of the uterus here.
The failure rate is only about 1 in a 1000 with today's techniques. The method (or something similar) could be refined and improved with more research. I think that all those men who whine about having to financially support their own children could sign up to be test subjects. I understand the pain goes away in a few days and it's nothing compared to the pain of pregnancy/childbirth or side effects of the Pill etc for women.
Of course it would only really work if it was mandated by the government and all males had to have it done. People who want the government to make abortion illegal for women should have no problem with the government taking away men's rights over their own bodies.
Whatcha reckon?
I prefer a castration over a vasectomy, but once again, I would like to ask you this: In the 1/1000 of cases where the vasectomy fails, do you support giving all such males a full, complete opt-out from paying child support (in exchange for having no parental rights at all) if they want one?
I'm a female in favor of men's reproductive rights.
Women have all the rights to the pregnancy and baby and no responsibility for getting pregnant. When a woman chooses to have sex, she has several things that she can use before sex, during sex, after sex, and once she is pregnant in order to avoid becoming a parent. When a man chooses to have sex, his options are limited. Within the next 20 years, I would like to see men receive reproductive rights.
In many cases, when the two have sex, they are having sex for pleasure not to reproduce. *These are the situations I'm talking about.*
A typical response to this is, “If you’re not prepared to be a father, then don’t have sex!â€, which I find rather strange because it's rare to hear, “If you’re not prepared to be a mother, then don’t have sex!â€. But then again, if she isn't financially prepared, the good 'ol government will help her out by forcing the father to pay child support or give her money.
He should've worn a condom
She could've made him wear a condom. *Again, I'm referring to situations where both parties had no intentions of reproducing.
"When a female determines she is pregnant, she has the freedom to decide if she has the maturity level to undertake the responsibilities of motherhood, if she is financially able to support a child, if she is at a place in her career to take the time to have a child, or if she has other concerns precluding her from carrying the child to term. After weighing her options, the female may choose abortion. Once she aborts the fetus, the female's interests in and obligations to the child are terminated. In stark contrast, the unwed father has no options. His responsibilities to the child begin at conception and can only be terminated with the female's decision to abort the fetus or with the mother's decision to give the child up for adoption. Thus, he must rely on the decisions of the female to determine his future. The putative father does not have the luxury, after the fact of conception, to decide that he is not ready for fatherhood. Unlike the female, he has no escape route." -Melanie McCulley, Attorney in South Carolina
Well said. You also have some women that poke holes in the condom to keep the men in their claws. If they don't want to be a mother or don't plan on getting married or making men their husbands then they shouldn't make men fathers (either).
It's good to see that the man's rights is being analyzed.
1. And yet females would still be able to get abortions ( in another country if necessary) without telling these males.
2. Yep, and this is the same argument that politically anti-abortion people use (in practice) to justify forcing females to remain pregnant but not males.
That said, biological differences should not be an excuse not to give males any opt-out from paying child support. Here is a video in regards to this:
3. If you are going to argue this from a rights-based perspective, then I can likewise do the same thing while abortion remains legal. Hence, you should watch the video which I linked to for #2.
Also, no one is saying that abortion and opting out of paying child support are equal things. They are not. However, the fact that they are unequal should not necessarily automatically make abortion morally justifiable while making child support opt-outs morally unjustifiable.
4. It is rather hard to find a way around this before this child turns 18.
5. Well, I am honestly not sure that males should be prevented from being able to reestablish contact wth their children after these children of theirs turn 18, assuming that these children themselves want to reestablish contact with them. After all, if parents give up their children for adoption, then they can still legally reestablish contact with these children after these children themselves become adults, correct?
That said, if you don't think that this should be the case, then the child's mother (if she is still alive at this point) could find out about this child's contact with his/her father when this child is an adult and call the police or whomever if necessary, so there will be a risk of the father risking going to jail and/or et cetera. Of course, another way to deal with this would be simply to change this child's name and/or to remove the father's name from this child's birth certificate and/or wherever while this child is still young (and assuming this the father's name is listed on this birth certificate at all in the first place).
6. Keep in mind that females already legally have the option of (in practice) unilaterally forcing the taxpayers to pay for all of the costs in regards to their children by utilizing safe haven laws.
Also, your rationale here can likewise be used to justify things such as forced abortions, forced sterilizations, Chinese-style one-child/two-child/et cetera policies, infanticide, et cetera. After all, it is worth noting that some/many couples don't have the financial means to raise their children without taxpayer money. Also, these things/measures could also reduce the number of children that the taxpayers will need to pay for. (Note: I am not actually supporting any of these things. I am simply making a point here.)
7. Not with my legal contract proposal, and keep in mind that females themselves can be more careful in regards to which males they have sex with, as well as to make different decisions in regards to whether or not they get abortions.
As for these children feeling a lot of emotional pain due to their fathers refusing to pay child support, Yes, it would be sad, but then again, some males could feel a lot of emotional pain if their prenatal offspring are adopted against their wishes, but this isn't (and shouldn't) be used as a rationale to justify making elective abortions without the consent of the "baby daddy" illegal.
8. Certainly, and for the record, I would love it if we will have the technology to allow everyone to get complete sex change, including changing one's brain/mind/gender identity. The sooner we will have this, the better. Until that point in time, though, we have to deal with reality.
9. Well, females can (and should) have the option of removing their ovaries, so yeah.
10. Sure, but this in itself is not a rationale against giving males any opt-out from paying child support.
11. Yep, except pregancy and childbirth are currently legally optional. Also, my point #9 appears to apply here as well.
12. Please read my point #10 here once again, since it appears to apply here as well.
What is the legal argument for giving men this opt out right?
Abortion is legal(with increasing limitations, and the constant threat of reversal) based on the right to privacy, which include a general idea of bodily privacy, and the right to a medical procedure like an abortion. The Court also concluded that the right is not unqualified and must be considered against important state interests in regulation. The legal case for men's "opt out" is also going to have to be balanced with the state's interests in having men support their children.
BTW, on 9. removing one's ovaries causes intense hormonal changes, basically menopausal symptoms begin upon removal no matter the age. There have also been shown to be increased risk of osteoporosis, memory losses, Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's in old age for women who have had ovaries removed before natural menopause. There is no way for a women to get out of periods, and possible pregnancy w/o severe consequences.
I have never heard ANYONE say women have no responsibility for sex and pregnancy. Ever. Unless you are quoting some brain addled idiot I can't imagine where that idea comes from.
But biology is what it is and we are never going to "even steven" this. We all know it yet want to find loopholes.
It isn't always effective, and when it fails, he still doesn't have a child support opt-out.
Of course, there is castration, which is probably more effective, so how about you make castrations easier to get? I'd honestly and genuinely like to get castrated before I ever have sex, so how about you get to it?
Biology has it set up that the thing a man controls is where he ejaculates. After he does, he has given his sperm away. Once given away, it's not his to control anymore just like a baby a woman gives away or an ovum she donates is not hers to control anymore. However, once the child is here, both parents are responsible for it.
Men will never have control once they give their sperm away because biology set it up that the woman is the one who carries the baby and there is nothing we can do about that. Once a baby is here, we must do what is fair for the baby not the adults involved.
I'll repeat my solution. A man can have a vasectomy and store sperm before the procedure. It is very rare for a vasectomy to come undone especially if they remove a long segment of the vas. The frozen sperm could be used at any time to impregnate the woman of his choice and this would, obviously, be by mutual agreement.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-24-2014 at 05:50 AM..
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