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I'm not against same-sex marriage, and I'm not homophobic at all, but why is this thing everywhere I look now? Can't they just take care of business like normal marriages should on their own time and place?
As long as there are people who oppose it vehemently, no, they can't just take care of business like normal marriages. Have you noticed some states have passed laws (or tried to) defining marriage as between male and female only? No? Didn't notice that?
Asking "why is same sex marriage being shoved down our throats" is kind of like asking "why is racial equality being shoved down our throats". "Why is women's suffrage being shoved down our throats?" I'm sure that back in the day, there were Brits who asked "Why is Indian independence being shoved down our throats?" Every once in a while, humanity manages to take a couple of steps forward. And usually, it has to do so against a tide of people pushing back. Hence the shoving.
Sorry if it appears unseemly. If it's too raucous for you, you could help by talking to the people pushing against the tide of progress.
So, you think gays and lesbians should just "settle?" That they shouldn't be able to share in the same right to marry the person of their choice that you and I do?
You have no problem with a segment of our population either having to live a lie (by marrying someone they aren't attracted to) or to spend their lives alone?
Well, aren't you just a kind and compassionate person!
Actually, I'm far more kind and compassionate that you think. It's my wish that all people could live a healthy and happy lifestyle- one free from the corruptions that destroy body and soul.
Girls and boys, too, who grow up without an interested, supportive father are much more prone to all kinds of emotional and behavioral issues. Look up the studies. I'm not making this up off the top of my head. When this happens due to death or divorce because of abuse or whatever, those are acceptions and not the ideal situation for a child. But often times they can't be helped. But when a same sex couple does artificial insemination or uses a surrogate, they are quite intentionally denying the child at least one or more of their natural parents. That is completely unfair to that child. When a same sex couple adopts, again they are denying that child a full time father or mother. Sadly there are fewer and fewer of these ideal families anymore- father/mother/children. And while we can't see the immediate effect, it WILL affect future generations and not in a good way. This whole same sex marriage with kids thing is a social experiment. Yes, I have known personally some lesbian women trying to raise children. Disaster! Those children suffered. Yes I know that at some point it will occur to a child that they are missing a parent. And it WILL affect them negatively. I'm 100% sure of this.
A lot of fathers are more of a sperm donor than a father to their kids. At least a same sex couple who uses donor sperm or a surrogate knows from the beginning that the natural parent will be absent from the equation. That's more than a lot of single mothers know...who gets pregnant planning to raise their child alone? Any child raised in a home with two loving parents (whether those are two dads, two moms, or a mom and a dad) has an advantage over the child of a single parent, because there are two parents to contribute to the household and provide attention to the child.
And you can't even begin to say that a childhood spent in an orphanage or being sent from foster parent to foster parent is less harmful than being adopted by a same sex couple.
Actually, I'm far more kind and compassionate that you think. It's my wish that all people could live a healthy and happy lifestyle- one free from the corruptions that destroy body and soul.
What exactly is harmful to the body about being gay or lesbian? The things that gay or lesbian couples do are some of the same things that a man and a woman do together, and it's not harmful to the body. I'm an old married lady and my husband and I have done just about everything two people can do together, and none of it has harmed either one of us.
About the soul, if you belong to a religion that believes homosexuality is harmful to the soul, then maybe it would be harmful to your soul. But I don't share that belief...I think two consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want in private, and if they find joy in it, that's even better.
I believe marriage is for the benefit of the children - or at least it SHOULD be.
That being said, as long as two people of the same sex can marry, then any two adult people should be allowed to marry - two brothers, two sisters, heck, a father and son for all I care.
It's really all about the money anyway.
I've been married for 17 years and have ZERO children. Is my marriage any less valid because I don't have children? I did NOT marry to have children. A piece of paper has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a person has children.
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Originally Posted by Sprite97
We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for heterosexual marriage and relations.
Funny how often that is overlooked!
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Originally Posted by Sprite97
Stop mocking black people. That has nothing to do with a sexual behavior.
I did not mock black people. For all you know I am black!
And being gay or lesbian has nothing to do with sexual behavior. There's far more to a person than who they have sex with and why.
If you live in a state where this kind of thing is accepted then fine, each state has a right to pass its own laws. What you don't have the right to do is use courts to force this on conservative southern states. Gay rights are NOT civil rights, homosexuality is a deviant behavior, NOT a race, ethnicity or a religion. It is not protected like those groups are, and it should not be. Society has a right to judge what is acceptable behavior and what is not, and states pass laws to do this. A vocal group of people engaged in a deviant behavior do not have the right to impose their will on every one else. If you live in a state where it is not legal and you feel persecuted there, well then move up north where its legal. If liberals persist in pushing this issue in the courts in conservative southern and western states it is only a matter of time before a southern governor nullifys the court rulling and dares the feds to do something about it. This could trigger a constitutional crises, or even a round of state secession. A lot of people are at the end of their ropes with progressivism and socialism in the red states. We are tired of it, and one day something is going to happen. Is gay marriage going to be the trigger issue??? If it keeps being pushed so aggressively it may be. At least half of Americans will NEVER accept it, the bible says its wrong so why keep pushing?? Even if you win in the courts what are you going to win??? Anger? resentment, hatred or even civil war??? Keep pushing.
So much of twisted logic in this that I hardly know where to start. And frankly I don't have much interest in even involving myself in discussion that runs amuk with assumptions and nonsense. But one point...I have studied this topic, read and researched and come to my own conclusions and THEN found that studies have backed up what I had a hunch was true.
For one thing, I'm not concerned about the sexual orientation of any child growing up in a gay household. I am concerned though about the negative example being set for the child, and for the subtle but still present cynical attitudes being taught to the child. While on the surface things may seem to be going swimmingly for the child, years down the road, problems and destructive forces will come to a head for many many of these children. Guaranteed. And that in turn will have a negative effect on society. Lots of screwed up adults to look forward to. On top of all the already screwed up adults who grew up with abusive parents, divorced parents, negligent parents, or with gross excesses or abject poverty. *Shaking head at the blindness of selfish people who have no concern for anyone but themselves and satisfying their lusts.* Sad business for these kids.
I don't know where to start either. You state that it's twisted logic, and amok with assumptions and nonsense, then state your 'concern for the negative example being set for the child' and that a 'subtle cynical attitude' is being taught to the children. If that's not assuming things what is? Your words show that you have no idea (except negative assumptions of your own) about what goes on in same sex households or relationships. You speak in circles, so I will agree, debate with you is futile.
I don't know you, and I know that there's no use trying to convince you to see things in another light, I just hope that if you have children they don't 'satisfy their lusts' in a same sex relationship. The guilt trip and shame laid upon them by your like would be tremendous.
If you live in a state where this kind of thing is accepted then fine, each state has a right to pass its own laws. What you don't have the right to do is use courts to force this on conservative southern states. Gay rights are NOT civil rights, homosexuality is a deviant behavior, NOT a race, ethnicity or a religion. It is not protected like those groups are, and it should not be. Society has a right to judge what is acceptable behavior and what is not, and states pass laws to do this. A vocal group of people engaged in a deviant behavior do not have the right to impose their will on every one else. If you live in a state where it is not legal and you feel persecuted there, well then move up north where its legal. If liberals persist in pushing this issue in the courts in conservative southern and western states it is only a matter of time before a southern governor nullifys the court rulling and dares the feds to do something about it. This could trigger a constitutional crises, or even a round of state secession. A lot of people are at the end of their ropes with progressivism and socialism in the red states. We are tired of it, and one day something is going to happen. Is gay marriage going to be the trigger issue??? If it keeps being pushed so aggressively it may be. At least half of Americans will NEVER accept it, the bible says its wrong so why keep pushing?? Even if you win in the courts what are you going to win??? Anger? resentment, hatred or even civil war??? Keep pushing.
But states cannot pass laws deemed unconstitutional, or denying equal protection. As I said previously, marriage is just a contract by two parties which is recognized by the state. They cannot stop someone from entering into a contract based on the sex of one party. Arguments about the sanctity of marriage become invalidated when you allow a gay man to marry a lesbian, but disallow a same sex couple the same opportunity. It's discrimination based on sex. Nobody is forcing homosexuality on anyone. A married gay couple doesn't have to have sex, it's not in the contract.
You state that the bible says it's wrong, but the bible also says Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. The bible says slavery is a natural condition. Why pick and choose? There is no irreparable harm to a straight couple (In fact no harm at all) by allowing a same sex couple to marry. It makes no difference to my life whether a couple has a piece of paper at home or not, no matter what their sex, it doesn't affect me, and it doesn't affect you. I don't need to know, nor do I care. I don't judge people by what they legally do in their own bedrooms.
Now, since you don't need a bible, or a church to get married, if churches decide to have 'Holy matrimony' ceremonies and decline to perform same sex marriages, that is their right. Nobody is going to force them to do that.
I sincerely hope that when same sex marriage is recognized nationwide (It's inevitable) and the world doesn't stop turning, that people 'at the end of their ropes' don't decide to become violent. It's just going to send them to jail.
But states cannot pass laws deemed unconstitutional, or denying equal protection. As I said previously, marriage is just a contract by two parties which is recognized by the state. They cannot stop someone from entering into a contract based on the sex of one party. Arguments about the sanctity of marriage become invalidated when you allow a gay man to marry a lesbian, but disallow a same sex couple the same opportunity. It's discrimination based on sex. Nobody is forcing homosexuality on anyone. A married gay couple doesn't have to have sex, it's not in the contract.
You state that the bible says it's wrong, but the bible also says Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. The bible says slavery is a natural condition. Why pick and choose? There is no irreparable harm to a straight couple (In fact no harm at all) by allowing a same sex couple to marry. It makes no difference to my life whether a couple has a piece of paper at home or not, no matter what their sex, it doesn't affect me, and it doesn't affect you. I don't need to know, nor do I care. I don't judge people by what they legally do in their own bedrooms.
Now, since you don't need a bible, or a church to get married, if churches decide to have 'Holy matrimony' ceremonies and decline to perform same sex marriages, that is their right. Nobody is going to force them to do that.
I sincerely hope that when same sex marriage is recognized nationwide (It's inevitable) and the world doesn't stop turning, that people 'at the end of their ropes' don't decide to become violent. It's just going to send them to jail.
The people at the end of their ropes I spoke about will not be going to jail. I was suggesting that conservative southern states will eventually secede from a union we no longer agree with. Secession movements are all over the place, and its openly talked about. Just last year dozens of petitions circulated supporting secession all over the south and west. We don't need violence, when the time comes we will be led by our governors and state legislatures out of this union in an orderly fashion, as happened in 1861. It will be up to the progressive states up north whether to attempt to use violence to force us to submit to you. It is the progressives who will be forced to contemplate violence, as it is the progressives who are trying to force society to change, and progressive who are threatening to violate states rights to govern themselves as the 10th amendment says they should. The issue is not only with gay marriage, but a host of other socialist programs as well. (Obamacare being the biggie). One thing to remember is that this is NOT 1861. The south is much stronger, and it also likely will be joined by the western states and even some parts of the Midwest. The end result of a conflict may not look like the one your history book says happened in 1865, but may permanently break this country up. If the rights of states are violated during this push for gay marriage, as it appears they will be in Oklahoma and Utah, then nullifying court orders may be an option for a defiant governor, or even secession. Progressives think because they own the courts, and have a population adavantage over the red states that they will force the changes they want on this nation. They should think long and hard about that strategy as the consequences may be severe. Maybe its time to dust off the old grey uniforms if our freedoms and rights are to be violated in this fashion.
Before you know it people in the USA will be able to get married with 50 other people and it will be completely legal but than again this is Liberal America
I'm catching next train to Texas.
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