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You have to realize that "MARRIAGE" is a 4000 year old, world historical, realization of one man and one woman. It overlaps everything throughout our entire existence of history and knowledge of.
Actually, the institution of marriage is at least 10,000 years old, and has not always been one man and one woman.
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With that said, I don't know if it should be allowed or not, but what I do know, is we are trying to change a complete and major faction of entire world history in what amounts to a 10-15 year period of time.
Same-sex marriage has existed in Ancient Egypt, Greece, and Rome, parts of Asian culture/history, among Native Americans, etc. Polygamy has also been practiced throughout human history. The concept of marriage you're clinging to is very modern.
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But why "marriage"? Why not create their own institution that is assured to be euqually accepted by all laws of the land, but just call it another term? Marriage is marriage and throughout it's entire inception has been, "one man, one woman"
See above. No it has not. And separate but equal never is. We tried "equal" but separate institutions/facilities for blacks and whites in the 50s and 60s. How did that work out?
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IT IS, WHAT IT IS. You can't change it. So go on create someone else, that gives you the same benefits, recognition, and legal standing, but call it.....I don't know......marriage #2.
Seeing as marriage is an English word and a human invention, of course we can change it. We've done it countless times. 50 years ago, marriage did not include mixed race relationships. Before that, only whites could be part of "marriage".
A right thinking conservative allows individuals to make their own choices and suffer the consequences or reap the rewards.
Interestingly, when it comes to same-sex marriage, a large percentage of people who call themselves conservative claim the right to intervene in the lives of others by denying them the right to marry the person they love. And many who call themselves liberal take the view that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry, even if they don't happen to approve of it personally.
And religion DOES have a place in politics - religion is essential in forming what little remains of the morality of our society.
Morality has no requirement for religion. You are just asserting nonsnese now. Religion should not have anything to do with politics. Facts figures and evidence should. And I am not seeing any facts figures and evidence here to suggest that gays should not marry - or that gays should not be allowed adopt. All I _AM_ seeing is people with an anti gay agenda - but with no points to make on the subject - simply inventing a god and pretending this god agrees with them. Rubber stamping nonsense with fantasy just makes it MORE nonsense - not less.
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Originally Posted by tvdxer
You can go on with your amoral atheism, that's your choice, just don't expect not to be judged on it.
There is nothing a- or im- moral about me. And why would I NOT want my morality to be judged? Of course I do. I do not hold fundamentalist opinions on morality that are not amenable to discussion or change. So get evaluating and judging. What is morally wrong with gays marrying or adopting other than people like Harrier simply asserting some "ideal" standard and declaring with further assertion that gays can not meet it?
I am all ears.
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Originally Posted by alaskaboy
You have to realize that "MARRIAGE" is a 4000 year old, world historical, realization of one man and one woman.
No we do not have to "realize" that because it is a falsehood. Marriage has been and continues to be a lot more than the falsehood you portray about it.
Marriage has been a constantly changing and evolving thing over time. It has included and precluded many things. Including polygamy and more.
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Originally Posted by alaskaboy
But why "marriage"? Why not create their own institution that is assured to be euqually accepted by all laws of the land, but just call it another term?
So create something that is the same in every way - but just use a different WORD for it? Why bother? And why should they? You have left the useful discussion behind and have simply entered into the realm of linguistic pedantry and purism. You are not making a political discussion but are merely arguing for the definition of terms.
But again: Why should they? Why can they not just be equal in all things? Why do you need a new word to segregate and differentiate them in some kind of tribal "us and them" attitude? This form of "the same but different" mentality has been tried in history before. Learn from history kid - but from your post I can only first recommend you learn some history first.
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Originally Posted by alaskaboy
Marriage is marriage and throughout it's entire inception has been, "one man, one woman"
Again - as above - this assertion is simply false. This discussion is hard to resolve at the best of times but dissementating outright falsehoods is not likely to help it.
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Originally Posted by alaskaboy
You can't change it.
Except we can. And we are. All the time. Get used to it kid - because it is not likely to get used to you.
Interestingly, when it comes to same-sex marriage, a large percentage of people who call themselves conservative claim the right to intervene in the lives of others by denying them the right to marry the person they love. And many who call themselves liberal take the view that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry, even if they don't happen to approve of it personally.
Marriage is not a right....people do not need it to be together. Also..."the right to marry the person they love"....few people really love each other...most simply do not want to be alone.
Considering that there are more children waiting to be adopted than there are people willing to adopt, that is not a problem as there is no competition. It isn't like there are only 100 kids waiting, and a hundred thousand people wanting to adopt.
If there is no on else willing to adopt a certain child, then a same-sex couple would be acceptable.
Last edited by Mr. Joshua; 03-12-2014 at 08:03 AM..
Marriage is not a right....people do not need it to be together. Also..."the right to marry the person they love"....few people really love each other...most simply do not want to be alone.
Where the government creates something, the PEOPLE have the RIGHT to equal access to same.
Here, the government created civil marriage, and a legal framework designating automatic rights, responsibilities, and privileges associated with same.
Therefore, the government must not discriminate without at LEAST a rational basis for that discrimination. Religious explanations are not rationally based. In fact, religion is pretty much the opposite of rational thought.
Where the government creates something, the PEOPLE have the RIGHT to equal access to same.
Here, the government created civil marriage, and a legal framework designating automatic rights, responsibilities, and privileges associated with same.
Therefore, the government must not discriminate without at LEAST a rational basis for that discrimination. Religious explanations are not rationally based. In fact, religion is pretty much the opposite of rational thought.
Why would gays want to give up their human and civil rights to the government? Marriage is a control mechanism. There are no real privileges that come with formal marriage...and as for rights...go into a family court and deal with the state and SEE what rights you and your spouse or children have...Society is run like an animal farm...and all you are is part of the useful herd.
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