Quote:
Originally Posted by eborg
So I realize you have no real idea how a lot of this tech works, which is why I mention cars. Because the tech that would be used in a situation like this would be remarkably similar to tech that is currently used in cars. Using that comparison you should be able to better understand things. In no way am I trying to equate Cars to Guns. I am comparing the technology.
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Which means that people do need to be concerned since the tech already exists to disable cars on demand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eborg
As for software updates, you would have to do it at a very, very close range, nothing nationwide scale would be possible. You could disrupt the electronics on a massively large scale but it would be ridiculously destructive to our entire countries infrastructure.
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Except you need some form of electronics, and if using a wireless dongle (RFID, phone, wristband) some form of wireless, therefore some disable signal could be sent to disable the firearm. This means that it can be co-opted by the malicious (either legally or illegally). No muss no fuss, and no massive disruption. What do you think that some crazed shooter with a firearm that has this security, is not going to have it disabled via a remote disable function built in? If the police can disable it, then someone else can find a way to disable it, and of course what about defending yourself from the police (it's not like it hasn't happened).
Would the police and/or military have universal dongles so that they could use any firearm? If we have these how would we secure these high value dongles, and update all weapons when a universal dongles security is revoked? For example suppose a dongle is stolen, copies are made of it's signature, the signature is revoked, how will a firearm know that the signature is no longer valid, if it was made before the signature was revoked without some form of update? The alternative is that police and military can only fire their issued weapons, unless we don't apply the same technology to theirs, which makes those weapons higher value and more attractive for theft, and of course does not prevent the case where the cop is shot by his duty weapon.
Moreover we don't have any idea how this would work. For example, how would a firearm be paired? It's going to be software, so either the pairing would be in the control mechanism, or would be available as a downloadable application, so effectively anyone can pair anything. That being the case, then how would this prevent guns being used by non-owners? If there is a way to permit multiple users (and there should be) then there needs to be a facility to permit adding users, how would that work?
If the firearm is secured by fingerprint, then how can it overcome the current limitations, which are that you need clean hands (very clean hands in some cases) and clean reader. not to mention the drawback of using gloves.
If pairing is strictly controlled (i.e. you need to take the firearm to some licensed authority to update the users) and is limited to one dongle (whatever that dongle is) there is a registry, because there needs to be a record of which dongle is tied to which firearm, in case you lose the dongle. We already have ample evidence that such data is of (validly or invalidly) "inherent government interest" and would be in government hands either overtly, or covertly in moments of the system going live.
If the device fails, does it fail safe? What would that mean? Will not fire, or will fire? Do we require the police and military to carry these too? In the instance of say an EMP, how could we expect these to operate under those conditions for civil defense and public safety measures? How would you make the device completely unremovable? A firearms trigger is a pretty simple mechanism, it would be difficult to install something that could not be simply removed using drills and Dremels, which while illegal, will not stop your average bank robber.
How would you deal with personal firearms manufacture (which is completely legal)? Do you ban it, or do you just require that they have the device? If they must have the device (but no ban) that prevents you from having strict control of pairing, since the self builder requires to pair his device.
Finally the issue of comparing cars and guns is the following. Cars
REQUIRE electrical power to operate, there are very few guns that require electrical power to operate (there was some electrically fired models built by Remington some time ago that did not do so well). So while with a car you are not using a crowbar to enable the technology, with a firearm you are.
In fact given the conditions most guns operate in, having electrical power requirements is a detriment, because they're expected to operate in all circumstances, i.e. after a nuclear detonation, being submerged in water, in high EM environments (for instance a modern battlefield, which has high power radar, jamming, and Vox/Data comms), after long periods of no use, in air temperatures over 212F to under -60F. While all of the drawbacks apply to mostly military applications (-60F being excepted for people like me, who do shoot at those temperatures), if one of the drawbacks of a US invasion should be that there is an armed populace, you are providing a means for your enemies to neutralize that drawback easily, using the same method as you would neutralize their C3/C4 systems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eborg
If they were to put tracking devices in with this technology that would be one thing, and it would be something that would be able to be found out easily and immediately as the gun would have to send out a signal that could be tracked. This is not what is being discussed though. If they start discussing that then your point would be valid.
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But the article did mention that Holder suggested GPS, do you know of any function of GPS other than for location services?
That's what I can pick apart after about 20 minutes of brainstorming.
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