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It boggles my mind that people put so much effort into addressing something that comparatively isn't even a problem.
If we want to cut down gun deaths, let's discuss end of life rights & euthanasia, since 60% of all gun deaths are suicides, mostly by the elderly. Why is the main cause of gun deaths never even touched on by gun control advocates? It's counter-intellectual.
Then, the vast majority of that 39-40% that's left over are unlicensed owners, often convicted felons & usually in the act of a felony. Why do gun control advocates never want to discus poor, inner city, minority's committing the vast majority of these crimes?
Why such an inordinate amount of attention to licensed gun owners, or in this case assault rifles? Deaths from all rifles constitute about 3%. The ratio of hunting rifles to assault rifles in our country dictates that perhaps....maybe....1% of gun deaths come from assault rifles compared the hunting rifles.
If I went by what I see on the news & read in rags like Mother Jones though, I'd think loonies with Assault Weapons were hiding in every bush waiting to get me.
Tom the machinist makes him a rifle. He does put a serial number on it. A crook breaks in and steals the rifle,plus other guns as well. Crook use rifle to rob store. Crook abandons stolen car and rifle. Cops find same. Look at serial number and go see Joe the Machinist. They ask joe who can you point a finger at? Joe says i think it is that bunch down the street and they are a bunch of met heads. Cops investigate the bunch down the street and sure enough a guy sitting in the living room is a spitting image of the guy that committed the robbery and stole the car., plus he has in his possession in the bedroom the other stolen guns.
Just an easy example.of how this can easily go down.
No need to tear apart my analogy because it is a made up scenario.
How do the police use the serial number to determine that Joe needs a visit? I've thought about serializing my lowers when I build them and I will start with 8675309. The next will be 7779311. Unless there is a manufacturer name stamped on the weapon, the police have no idea where to start.
It's easy when they see a serial number and a manufacturer. They just give them a call. They determine which distributor or FFL it was sent to. From there, the FFL is visited and their book is looked at. From there, Joe is visited. Without a manufacturer, there is no starting point.
Extra points if you can figure out the meaning of my serial numbers.
John John John we buy you books and buy you books and you just keep eating the pages! Ask any cop and they will tell you that getting a serial number from a gun is a great piece of evidence. The last owner might have been murdered by the guy that has his gun.
Maybe you need to buy me better books. I read everything before I eat the pages and I dont know how the serial number helps you determine if someone has been murdered by that gun.
If I shoot someone and they die, how do you determine which serial number is associated with that murder until AFTER you have the gun and match ballistics? How does the serial number help add value to proving that gun was responsible for the shooting?
The pages I ate indicated that the ballistics prove which gun fire the bullet and the serial number is only helpful to determine who it was legally sold to. If the gun was stolen, it tells me nothing about the thief. If the gun has not been found, a list of serial numbers does nothing to match guns to murders.
What books have you eaten that tell you more than that?
It boggles my mind that people put so much effort into addressing something that comparatively isn't even a problem.
If we want to cut down gun deaths, let's discuss end of life rights & euthanasia, since 60% of all gun deaths are suicides, mostly by the elderly. Why is the main cause of gun deaths never even touched on by gun control advocates? It's counter-intellectual.
Then, the vast majority of that 39-40% that's left over are unlicensed owners, often convicted felons & usually in the act of a felony. Why do gun control advocates never want to discus poor, inner city, minority's committing the vast majority of these crimes?
Why such an inordinate amount of attention to licensed gun owners, or in this case assault rifles? Deaths from all rifles constitute about 3%. The ratio of hunting rifles to assault rifles in our country dictates that perhaps....maybe....1% of gun deaths come from assault rifles compared the hunting rifles.
If I went by what I see on the news & read in rags like Mother Jones though, I'd think loonies with Assault Weapons were hiding in every bush waiting to get me.
" Deaths from all rifles constitute about 3%. The ratio of hunting rifles to assault rifles in our country dictates that perhaps....maybe....1% of gun deaths come from assault rifles compared the hunting rifles."
I am quite sure that the SANDY HOOK parents will agree with you that 1-3% is just nothing.
Most guns (legally) don't have serial numbers as it is. This is because they weren't really required until 1968. Before then, it was optional. Also, gun registrations are spotty. Before the use of computers, this was all done by hand on paper, and over time, these records have gotten lost of stolen, water damage, mice, etc. A lot of guns are also passed down by family members and the records on these purchases have long since been forgotten or are historic WW2 rifles and handguns that do not have a serial number. There are also errors in the computer system where a number was transcribed incorrectly by someone not fully literate with a PC. Sometimes if a gun is stolen, the owner doesn't even know the serial number and has to report it as unknown. If the guns registration was lost for above reasons, there is no ifo for the police to have. My point is there even in states where guns are registered and have serial numbers, you will have areas of missing information. Closing the "manufactured gun loophole" is just another law that doesn't really solve anything because there are already millions of legally owned firearms with serial numbers that the police won't have any info (or incorrect info on)
The ultimate solution is full gun registration and tracking. It's the only way to really know who has what. And you can be sure this idea would be met with a LOT of resistance.
The reason why gun owners refuse to budge is simply because they feel if you give a little ground, it will slowly be chipped away. Look at smoking. I grew up when smoking could be done anywhere at anytime and it was accepted. Over the years I watched at "non smoking section" became part of eating out, to seeing it banned completely from all eating establishments to even now being banned within X number of feet from the main entrance. It's even been taxed to the point where people can't afford to smoke. It literally has become an incrementalist policy on banning smoking.
The same can be said by gun owners about laws restricting guns. Lets just say semi-auto rifles were to be banned. Lawmakers can say "well, we won't touch bolt actions or shotguns" and everyone goes about their business. 10-15 years down the road, someone takes a shotgun and walks into a school. A copycat follows. How soon before support is being drummed up to restrict shotguns? Same goes for magazines? For years, it was "Why do yo need 30 rounds, 10 is enough!" to the point where states began to limit magazine sizes to 10 rounds. Years went by and what did NY do? Pass a law to restrict to 7! So now what? 10 years goes by and another state goes to 5 rounds? This is what people want to try to nip inthe bud now, because all these restrictions and rules really don't solve the problem which is a behaviour problem.
I'm not one of those "the govt is coming after me" type of people, but at the same time, i view my firearm ownership as a passionate hobby and do not want the govt to take it from me. It would be no different than if the govt took a look at the Ford Mustang in my driveway and said "Motor vehicle deaths are too high, we need to confiscate your vehicle (and give you pennies on the dollar for it) or you need to neuter it by installing a 4cylinder engine in it". If you dont believe that would happen, it has out in NY
I understand why people want to tighten up laws and restrict things more, but it's just not solving the underlying issues as to why people do not respect one another anymore.
Thank you for taking the time to write this. Bravo! This explains the slow erosion of our rights.
How do the police use the serial number to determine that Joe needs a visit? I've thought about serializing my lowers when I build them and I will start with 8675309. The next will be 7779311. Unless there is a manufacturer name stamped on the weapon, the police have no idea where to start.
It's easy when they see a serial number and a manufacturer. They just give them a call. They determine which distributor or FFL it was sent to. From there, the FFL is visited and their book is looked at. From there, Joe is visited. Without a manufacturer, there is no starting point.
Extra points if you can figure out the meaning of my serial numbers.
Are you just Obtuse. Most people put there valuable items on their insurance policy. Joe only gets the visit after he calls the cops and says his guns were stolen.
Are you just Obtuse. Most people put there valuable items on their insurance policy. Joe only gets the visit after he calls the cops and says his guns were stolen.
No they don't. Most guns owners do not have a separate insurance rider for their $500 gun and many insurance companies do not even require serial numbers.
No they don't. Most guns owners do not have a separate insurance rider for their $500 gun and many insurance companies do not even require serial numbers.
All mine needed was pictures and descriptions plus estimate of value. Mostly in case of a fire. Half of my guns don't have a serial number so it would be rather hard to document such a thing.
No they don't. Most guns owners do not have a separate insurance rider for their $500 gun and many insurance companies do not even require serial numbers.
You don't know on that for sure. People do buy riders on their insurance.
Are you going to split hairs just to avoid admitting my talk about serial numbers is actually a good thing?
You have always been down to earth on these subjects. I am thinking that some cannot see the forest for the trees.
I have given some very good reasons and all i got back was WELL BUT!
I havnt avoided your talk about serial numbers, I have told you many times why your wrong and why your idea sucks.
Please make up another example of things that do not happen to try and chnage my mind.
The simple facts are as follows
1. People can legally make a rifle for personal use and do not need a serial number.
2. People who make said rifles are not committing crimes.
Question: With the two self evident facts above; why should a civil right be further restricted?
Correct Answer: Their is no logical reason to restrict a civil right given the known facts.
Your answer: Well, you never know what someone might do someday and criminals can become machinist but they won't do machining work which can pay 100k a year and instead will make guns without serial numbers for criminals or terrorists.
Last edited by shooting4life; 06-06-2014 at 12:46 PM..
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Ask any cop and they will tell you that getting a serial number from a gun is a great piece of evidence. The last owner might have been murdered by the guy that has his gun.
