Colorado man forced to bake gay wedding cakes, ordered by judge to attend "sensitivity training" (Brown, abuse)
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The vast majority likely have no desire to sue a baker. Like the rest of us they are simply too busy with life. Generalizing about an entire group based upon the actions of the few is more of a problem IMO than someone not being able to buy a wedding cake.
if that is the case then the GAY/LESBIAN COMMUNITY should DEMONIZE THEM and tell them to buzz off.
tell them if they don't like it too bad just find someone else.
if you are gay or lesbian and support those groups of people then you/they are part of the problem.
acting so entitled is the problem right now.
they are getting way too arrogant, gloating and pushing too many changes now.
they need to hold there horses and think for a second now.
nothing against all gays or lesbians
just most of the brats that think its just cool to be gay or lesbians now
rather than it being their choice and being polite about it
if I don't want to sell you something why should you be able to order a judge to force me to perform a service.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO MY/anyone's SERVICES If I don't want to give it to you.
if a rich person offered someone a billion dollars to help him by giving him a kidney and that person refuses.
does the judge have the right to force the person to give his kidney?
UM HELL NO.
makes sense yet?
no one has the right to force someone else to perform any service unless they want to.
this is called an agreement between both parties.
if either one disagrees then there should not be a transaction.
sure the baker can decline to sell just boycott them, suing them? that's UTTERLY STUPID
I throw up on lesbians and gays doing this type of thing.
they are just being BRATS now. maybe they should go back into their hole if they want to act that way.
like they are so entitled?
I never hated gays and lesbians but I am growing to hate them now the more bratish they become
(yes I made that word up)
damn BRATS.
These old tired arguments were used by hotel owners and apartment building owners to refuse to rent to Jews.
These tired old arguments were used by beauty shops and doctor's offices who refused to avail services to Hispanics.
These tired old arguments were used to deny African-Americans service in restaurants, or by Taxi cabs, or admittance to amusement parks.
People here just do not understand anti-discrimination laws. They just don't get it. They don't understand the law, the constitution, or civil rights. It is too complicated for them to fathom.
It is not just about struggle. It is about equality. Certainly blacks suffered more than any other group and that was reprehensible.
The only insult in this debate is done by those who continue to justify inequality. Hopefully you and others will see the light soon and stop doing that. Public accommodation laws require that a cake for a wedding that is available to straight people is also available to gay people. Also to black people, women, and people of other races.
Gays do not have the same rights as blacks (at least not straight blacks). You are aware that black people that are straight can marry in every state while gay people are still banned from it in 30 states. The 1964 Civil Rights Act applied to people of color, but not to gays. Gay rights in employment did not occur until a decade later in just a relatively small number of cities. It was not until the 1980's and 1990's that many other states and cities enacted legislation.
Today there is still no federal law mandating equal protection of gay rights in the workplace. The ENDA legislation did get approved by one committee, but has stalled in Congress.
If you wanted to determine the rights of Americans based on who had fewer struggles and plight, you should logically deny straight white males their rights before anyone else rather than becoming enraged at gay people for no good reason. Our country's ideals should encourage us to have equality for everyone. If there are exceptions, it is not true equality.
There is no requirement that an American citizen had to endure a certain amount of "struggle" to be granted their rights. However, there have been several instances where gay people have endured humiliating treatment and even been killed (Harvey Milk in San Francisco and Matthew Shepherd in Wyoming being two examples).
It is about equality for all, not pitting one group against another for no good reason as you did. You're welcome.
And you continue to compare what someone "is" to what someone "does".
if that is the case then the GAY/LESBIAN COMMUNITY should DEMONIZE THEM and tell them to buzz off.
People shouldn't "demonize" others because they do things differently than they do. That's part of the problem.
Quote:
tell them if they don't like it too bad just find someone else.
if you are gay or lesbian and support those groups of people then you/they are part of the problem.
acting so entitled is the problem right now.
they are getting way too arrogant, gloating and pushing too many changes now.
they need to hold there horses and think for a second now.
nothing against all gays or lesbians
just most of the brats that think its just cool to be gay or lesbians now
rather than it being their choice and being polite about it
And you continue to compare what someone "is" to what someone "does".
Do you ever get tired of beating that dead horse?
Equality is important. It is not a dead horse to most of us. Being a gay person is an orientation, not an action by itself.
Would you also discriminate against someone for their religious beliefs because they also choose to pray or attend church or someone that does not believe and chooses not to do those things? I have no problem with logically arguing for equality.
Logic, facts,reason, principle and common sense > head slaps.
if I don't want to sell you something why should you be able to order a judge to force me to perform a service.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO MY/anyone's SERVICES If I don't want to give it to you.
if a rich person offered someone a billion dollars to help him by giving him a kidney and that person refuses.
does the judge have the right to force the person to give his kidney?
UM HELL NO.
makes sense yet?
no one has the right to force someone else to perform any service unless they want to.
this is called an agreement between both parties.
if either one disagrees then there should not be a transaction.
sure the baker can decline to sell just boycott them, suing them? that's UTTERLY STUPID
I throw up on lesbians and gays doing this type of thing.
they are just being BRATS now. maybe they should go back into their hole if they want to act that way.
like they are so entitled?
I never hated gays and lesbians but I am growing to hate them now the more bratish they become
(yes I made that word up)
damn BRATS.
This puts the issue in better perspective. Colorado became a state in 1876. It ONLY took 137 years for gays to be granted the right to civil unions in 2013. Those impatient brats have a lot of chutzpah not wanting to wait a little longer.
As to the bakery owner, no sympathy. They would have made just as much money from the sale to the gay couple. For those that say it is not the point I disagree. They are a business as someone else stated earlier. Furthermore, with a small amount of courage they could have done a civil disobedience, still refused the couple, accept the citation and remain vocal in opposing it if they had so chosen.
Keep in mind that a Fundamentalist straight conservative couple planning to marry that participates in rallies against gay marriage is also protected by this provision because a liberal minded or gay bakery owner will never be able to refuse them a cake either. People of all viewpoints, races, religions, and orientations are protected. No one is a victim here.
You can choose to despise some of them. I am sure a few do behave like brats. That would be a first, because white or black straight people both male and female and especially teenagers, have never misbehaved to my knowledge. LOL. In other words, there are a small number in every group that behave like brats. You are within your rights to only despise those brats that happen to be gay if you so choose and give the others a free pass.
In any event, outrage against a few brats does not justify turning back the clock and having inequality. I would be more concerned with those with the "Westboro Baptist" mentality that hold up signs that say "God hates ****" than against gay people asking a bakery to provide a cake.
As far as I and an increasing number of people are concerned, the arguments for equal accommodation and equality in general prevail.
These old tired arguments were used by hotel owners and apartment building owners to refuse to rent to Jews.
These tired old arguments were used by beauty shops and doctor's offices who refused to avail services to Hispanics.
These tired old arguments were used to deny African-Americans service in restaurants, or by Taxi cabs, or admittance to amusement parks.
People here just do not understand anti-discrimination laws. They just don't get it. They don't understand the law, the constitution, or civil rights. It is too complicated for them to fathom.
Great points. There may be some people participating in the online discussion that did not know that several groups of people were discriminated against in this manner and with the same arguments and attitudes. I am sure others could be added, too. Thanks for sharing.
if that is the case then the GAY/LESBIAN COMMUNITY should DEMONIZE THEM and tell them to buzz off.
tell them if they don't like it too bad just find someone else.
if you are gay or lesbian and support those groups of people then you/they are part of the problem.
acting so entitled is the problem right now.
they are getting way too arrogant, gloating and pushing too many changes now.
they need to hold there horses and think for a second now.
nothing against all gays or lesbians
just most of the brats that think its just cool to be gay or lesbians now
rather than it being their choice and being polite about it
Those holding "God hates ****" signs at rallies are not only impolite, but hateful. Some of those people think it is cool for some sick reason. There are some gay rights opponents that demonize them, but some that do not unfortunately. Don't observe your outrage over that on this thread. They are not pushing it or getting arrogant? LOL. Of course, they have a right to do this and reveal how pathetic they truly are.
When I watch the news or go online for it, I do not remember seeing "God hates straights" signs at a rally.
Continue to "enforce" your good behavior requirement disproportionately to one group then and ignore abuses by others if you please.
This decision was based on equality and this action moves us one step closer to the ideal of liberty and pursuit of happiness for ALL (not most or some) as stated in the Declaration of Independence. Therefore, I believe this is the truly more patriotic viewpoint, too.
You have a right to your viewpoint, but please be warned it might be embarrassing a decade from now when almost everyone will take this new step for equality for granted and wondered how they could have thought that way just a decade ago. It has happened in regards to other groups and the issue of inter-racial marriages in the past. It is possible you could be one of those people.
What people don't seem to understand here is that the baker is not discriminating against gays, he is discriminating against Gay Marriage, there's a difference. It would be like trying to force a Jewish Bakery to bake a bunch of cupcakes for a Neo Nazi Rally, it's about the particular event and the Government has no right to tread on the liberties of these business owners and force them to do something that violates their deeply held religious beliefs, it's a slap in the face to the 1st Amendment.
You guys who are against the bakery owner do not have an actual logical argument. The hypocrisy in all of this is when the Mozilla CEO was given the boot from his own company for not supporting Gay Marriage and you guys were all in favor of Business Discrimination then. Now you're not? Sorry you can't make that claim anymore, you have no more credibility left.
Equality is important. It is not a dead horse to most of us. Being a gay person is an orientation, not an action by itself.
Orientation. That's one of the words libs have appropriated and redefined to fit their own political purposes. Here's what the rest of us understand it to mean:
o·ri·en·ta·tion
noun
1. the act or process of orienting.
2. the state of being oriented.
3. an introduction, as to guide one in adjusting to new surroundings, employment, activity, or the like: New employees receive two days of orientation.
4. Psychology, Psychiatry. the ability to locate oneself in one's environment with reference to time, place, and people.
5. one's position in relation to true north, to points on the compass, or to a specific place or object.
Which of these standard and accepted definitions are you referring to?
Gays wave that word like a flag, and woe to whomever doesn't buy the story about "orientation".
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek
Would you also discriminate against someone for their religious beliefs because they also choose to pray or attend church or someone that does not believe and chooses not to do those things? I have no problem with logically arguing for equality.
Logic, facts,reason, principle and common sense > head slaps.
Actually, I can see many cases where discrimination would be a good thing. If a private business owner is offended by some aspect of my person, I don't want to patronize him/her and would rather be told so I can find another place to spend my money. If enough people find such actions undesirable, that business will cease to exist. OTOH, that business may also prosper as a result. I'd like to see posted near the entrance a list of reasons a private business would choose to not do business with potential customers.
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