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Old 09-05-2014, 01:09 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,973,518 times
Reputation: 2177

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Quote:
Originally Posted by random_thoughts View Post
Wow. How did you even come up with these numbers ?
By the same mechanism and logic that says welfare is subsidizing low value employment.

Quote:
Why should you get $12.50 when a McDonald cook, sweating in a hot kitchen gets only $7.50?
Huh?
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:09 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,458,676 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Been there and done that when I was 16. I've increased the value of my labor so I don't have to work in a sweaty kitchen for peanuts.
What you miss is that the world is not the same place it was when you grew up. That upward mobility is increasingly going the way of bigfoot. It works for people like me, who go to college and grad school and join the white collar world; it does not work for the kinds of people who historically worked blue collar jobs and were able to feed a family and keep a roof over their heads. Nobody every said that the blue collar worker back then should have been rich compared to the white collar worker, but they could still make ends meet. Increasingly not so today.

We have a structural employment and income problem in this country. and it goes far beyond the usual "is the figurehead in office a Republican or Democrat, blah blah." The problem is that neither traditional Republican/conservative nor Democrat/liberal approaches can fix it; things are different today. But since we can't possibly move beyond the traditional partisan lines of gridlock, we can't make any progress toward a real solution. And that is why you will only see the income inequality gap keep growing and growing...and you'll see the fallout in societal instability.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,531,102 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by random_thoughts View Post
Wow. How did you even come up with these numbers ?






Why should you get $12.50 when a McDonald cook, sweating in a hot kitchen gets only $7.50?
You mean the people we can now see from the counter that put the semi cooked hamburger in the microwave and press a button ?

Sounds like you have never been in a McDonald's yet.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:10 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 829,225 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
The cost determined by supply and demand. But as a society, we should also be able to apply the presumption that full-time workers should be able to meet their basic needs for survival. If you rig the game to give them only half of what they need to survive, they will need to turn to the government to get the other half. That is certainly not the full cost.
We got a winner. The real cost of employment at McD is the salary + any government help the employee receive. I say, let those eating at mcdonalds pay the full cost, I don't eat there so why would my taxes have to subsidize somebody else's horrible eating habits?
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:11 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,973,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katestar View Post
I've worked in retail and food service and honestly it's not an easy peasy job.
The value of a job is in no way influenced by the difficulty or exertion of the individual doing it.

The value of the job is defined by what the product or service will sell for.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:11 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,408,756 times
Reputation: 4025
Another day, another batch of angry conservatives complaining about people trying to get paid a living wage. I missed the memo where burger flippers deserve to starve.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,773,354 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Let the government subsidize their wages then.
Business pays them $8/hour and government kicks in another $7/hour.
There's your $15/hour.
I do not look down on minimum wage workers. A job is a job.

The way I look at it, the federal and state government have subsidized these wages for decades.

How few pay any taxes?

Those with dependents can get a refund in excess of what they had withheld, including Payroll, taxes via the EITC.

Those wit children qualify for SNAP, Section 8, free school meal programs, TANF, utility subsidies and other benefits.

Their minor dependents can qualify for Medicaid healthcare.

Their children are educated at no cost to them.

They qualify for grants and serious discounts for education.

They likely qualify for adult healthcare insurance at no cost to them.

The value of these benefits is substantially greater than $15/hr.


How many minimum wage workers would be willing to trade all these low income benefits to make $15 hour of taxable income?
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:12 PM
 
2,682 posts, read 4,482,608 times
Reputation: 1343
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You mean the people we can now see from the counter that put the semi cooked hamburger in the microwave and press a button ?

Sounds like you have never been in a McDonald's yet.
Economics aside, it's much more than that. You stand your whole shift on you feet, deal with rude customers, clean up throw up or worse in the bathroom, take out the trash, restock, clean, clean, clean what messy rude customers leave behind. I think that work deserves more than $7/hr.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:12 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,973,518 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
The cost determined by supply and demand. But as a society, we should also be able to apply the presumption that full-time workers should be able to meet their basic needs for survival.
Why?

Quote:
If you rig the game to give them only half of what they need to survive, they will need to turn to the government to get the other half. That is certainly not the full cost.
Wrong. completely.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:13 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 829,225 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You mean the people we can now see from the counter that put the semi cooked hamburger in the microwave and press a button ?

Sounds like you have never been in a McDonald's yet.
Right. Because everybody else making $12.50 or $15.00 is a rocket scientist or working on a cure for cancer...

The reality is that most jobs in the range $10-15 are no skill/low skill jobs that don't require much education.

Why would a McD cook standing in a hot kitchen be paid $7.50 then?
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