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Too many people watching terrorist porn like Homeland and now they believe torture is justified. Sad.
Thats not it at all.
I believe torture, eit, whatever you want to call it, is worth it when it comes to high end, extreme terrorists like KSM. I've believed that for a long time.
Anyone who says they wouldn't beat the hell out of someone to find their own missing child is not being intellectually honest, or their survival instincts are such that they would not last outside the borfers of these United States or Canada.
Tough. Any comment on the rest? That even if I said "yes", I'd still expect my country to adhere to the standards it claims to hold? Don't you? Why not?
I hope your children don't know this....
I know people like to talk tough against the use of EITs but I'd be very interested in see how they respond, if God forbid, the situation ever did occur where they had a say so to use EITs to save a child's life.
You think I'm exaggerating and making up an unlikely scenario? How many people do you think knew about the plan to attack the school in Pakistan? You think it was only the 6 who did it? Doubtful.
But then again, in your fantasy world, if we were just nicer to them, everything would be OK.
What they're saying is, that regardless of some hypothetical scenario about their child and the response they would personally have on using coercive means to achieve a return of that child, that they would expect their government to uphold the rule of law and abide by the treaties it has signed, and uphold it's stated national principles and not violate human rights.
How a person responds in any specific situation and how a government responds in any specific situation are entirely different.
Are you for instance saying that you would expect that EIT/Torture should be used on all suspected criminals? If not then why not?
See the problem with every "would you EIT/torture" scenario is that there's a presumption of too much data. If your child is kidnapped and they have a suspect and the suspect is not telling you where child is regardless of offers made would you be up for using EIT/Torture?
So what do we know, we know your child has been abducted, and we know we have a suspect, and we know that offers made for more information have been denied. That's all specific to this instance.
We also know that 89% of abductees are killed within the first 24 hours, 76% within 3 hours and we know that approx 15% of all reported child abductions are covers for familial homicide. If the victim is a male in the 1-5 age range familial homicide rises to nearly 35%. 44% overall of homicide/abductions are by friends/acquaintances of the family. This is from statistical data from historical events of this type
That's all we know if they're the kidnapper how do we know they are? Did they confess? If they confessed then how do we know that the confession is valid? People have confessed to capital murders of others with no possible motive, means or opportunity to commit it. How do you know you've just not caught some loon with no connection to the crime? If you have a loon do you think EIT/torture will suddenly start providing good information from them? Are they known to the family (friend/acquaintance)? How long between the abduction and current time is important too. Should we also EIT the parents and siblings, because we know that a significant proportion of familial homicides are initially reported as abductions.
See it's easy to say "Hey if we knew everything except this one little thing" would you torture someone, but that's almost never the way it is, the way it almost exclusively is would you torture someone who you think might possibly have some connection with something you're interested in, but you're not sure.
You're missing a very important point here. As a parent, you don't give a crap about the above. You would, or SHOULD, do anything possible to get your child back. Yes, the situation I brought up is quite rare and there are other important variables that we don't know that may or may not affect our decision making. That being said, parents don't care and will be ok with any means to be used if they think it will help in getting their child back.
I have no issue with people who are against EIT and torture. I don't think it should used as a first option and I would be skeptical at whatever information was gleaned from it anyway. I do feel, however, that there are situations that it MAY be useful and has worked and I do feel that John Q. Public would be ok with its use in certain situations if it involves them and/or their families.
I'm sorry, but if you are unwilling to go against a belief for the sake of your child's life then you shouldn't be a parent and you are lying if you said you actually care about what methods were employed by the authorities in getting you child back safely.
I believe torture, eit, whatever you want to call it, is worth it when it comes to high end, extreme terrorists like KSM. I've believed that for a long time.
Anyone who says they wouldn't beat the hell out of someone to find their own missing child is not being intellectually honest, or their survival instincts are such that they would not last outside the borfers of these United States or Canada.
LOL There are many hypocrites on line. I agree with you. If someone took my child I would torture anyone I thought would be able to help me get my child back. I have very little faith in the ability of law enforcement. There are just too many idiots in uniform.
As for the CIA. They are a dirty org. Everyone knows this, because all intelligence agencies are dirty. It is required to be effective. Anyone who believes that the CIA is the worst or the only ones who do it are either naive or stupid.
Ask the Irish how many of their sons and daughters were asked politely while detained about the IRA.
The Germans have their own hard hitters. Every government does and that is because bad people require hard measures.
I don't have any, so, they don't. And as I've said, nothing I, personally, would do speaks to how I think my government should behave regarding its treatment of prisoners or anything else.
LOL There are many hypocrites on line. I agree with you. If someone took my child I would torture anyone I thought would be able to help me get my child back. I have very little faith in the ability of law enforcement. There are just too many idiots in uniform.
As for the CIA. They are a dirty org. Everyone knows this, because all intelligence agencies are dirty. It is required to be effective. Anyone who believes that the CIA is the worst or the only ones who do it are either naive or stupid.
Ask the Irish how many of their sons and daughters were asked politely while detained about the IRA.
The Germans have their own hard hitters. Every government does and that is because bad people require hard measures.
An almost convincing argument except for the fact that trained interrogators say that torture isn't the best way of extracting accurate information.
LOL There are many hypocrites on line. I agree with you. If someone took my child I would torture anyone I thought would be able to help me get my child back. I have very little faith in the ability of law enforcement. There are just too many idiots in uniform.
And when all is said and done would you turn yourself in for your crimes?
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