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There are numerous smaller parties lining up to join their coalition, so it appears that Syriza will have their way in Greece.
Batten down the hatches, people. This could become terribly ugly.
What I understand they have trouble to find other parties to co-operate with. The River (Liberals) and PASOK (Social Democrats) are the only moderate left parties and they seem not too overly enthusiastic about SYRIZA being a left-wing populist party. KKE (Communists) may be an alternative at least some of them but I doubt it. Apparently, there are a few of them which may want to join SYRIZA and historically KKE and SYRIZA have worked together on certain issues. It was actually the ANEL (National-Conservatives) which helped SYRIZA to block the election of the president which lead to early general elections. Although, the River have said that they will not join any alliance with SYRIZA if ANEL is invited. There are reasons for it. ANAL is conservative in the sense they are in opposition of multiculturalism (advocating assimilation) and immigration. They are also conservative on social issues like feminism, abortion and similar issues. Still, ANEL and SYRIZA have sort of the same view on the ECB and what ought to be done. ANEL is a modest anti-austerity party and SYRIZA is a more radical anti-austerity party but they have some common grounds when it comes to economics. According to ANEL:s webpage they will meet Alexis Tsipras to discuss terms.
If SYRIZA and ANEL form a government or ANEL support a SYRIZA government it would be historical in the sense that it is the first time national-conservatives and the radical left work together towards a common goal. Marine Le Pen (Front National) just gave her support to SYRIZA and what I understood also other high-ranking members of national-conservative parties around Europe. I wonder how the North and Central European left will react because most of them have cares about internationalism, multiculturalism, feminism and “anti-racism” and that the current liberal elites are continuing to be in power.
Last edited by CharlesMcintyre; 01-25-2015 at 08:59 PM..
Their version of "austerity" merely means "not printing money like an explosion, to spend".
There is no actual austerity anywhere in Europe. Or anywhere.
Governments continue to direct larger and larger portions of our economy.
What its is the reduction in spending to finance current levels .Basic not cuts but cuts in increases. Personally all that EU money loans has done is keep them from defaulting. If they default then the real pain comes. But it maybe the only real solution with their situation.
What its is the reduction in spending to finance current levels .Basic not cuts but cuts in increases. Personally all that EU money loans has done is keep them from defaulting. If they default then the real pain comes. But it maybe the only real solution with their situation.
Read what SYRIZA wants;
Quote:
“Our task is to bring about a European New Deal within which our people can breathe, create and live in dignity.”
What they are basically saying is that the European Union ought to create a New Deal. In reality it would mean a huge transfer of wealth from Northern and Western European countries to Southern and Eastern European countries. What SYRIZA don’t get is that unemployment and under-unemployment is already high in countries like Sweden, Finland, Denmark, United Kingdom, France, Netherlands, Belgium and Austria although not as bad as in Greece. It makes no sense that countries which have act with fiscal responsibility ought to pay for the mistakes done by the crony politicians and private bankers. The only thing SYRIZA will get is more people turning to radical parties when their money goes into the pockets of Greeks. If SYRIZA was serious they would leave the Euro-Zone and default their currency. It would sting for a while but it would sting more for the private bankers and central bankers. They did lousy investments and if Greece leaves some of them will go bankrupt. SYRIZA reminds me of those left-wing Detroiters which claims that the regular people in other cities and states ought to pay because they spend the last fifty years buying stuff they couldn’t pay for. I agree with SYRIZA that they should look into some kind of New Deal for their country but they should pay for it and not other people in other countries. So – they should leave the Euro-Zone and do what is right for them and the rest of the European Union should take responsibility for loaning out money to an insolvent country and let their private banks default.
And no..We don’t need Goldman Sachs and JP. Morgan. Just as I don’t want to bail out Greece I don’t want to bail out greedy bankers.
What they are basically saying is that the European Union ought to create a New Deal. In reality it would mean a huge transfer of wealth from Northern and Western European countries to Southern and Eastern European countries. What SYRIZA don’t get is that unemployment and under-unemployment is already high in countries like Sweden, Finland, Denmark, United Kingdom, France, Netherlands, Belgium and Austria although not as bad as in Greece. It makes no sense that countries which have act with fiscal responsibility ought to pay for the mistakes done by the crony politicians and private bankers. The only thing SYRIZA will get is more people turning to radical parties when their money goes into the pockets of Greeks. If SYRIZA was serious they would leave the Euro-Zone and default their currency. It would sting for a while but it would sting more for the private bankers and central bankers. They did lousy investments and if Greece leaves some of them will go bankrupt. SYRIZA reminds me of those left-wing Detroiters which claims that the regular people in other cities and states ought to pay because they spend the last fifty years buying stuff they couldn’t pay for. I agree with SYRIZA that they should look into some kind of New Deal for their country but they should pay for it and not other people in other countries. So – they should leave the Euro-Zone and do what is right for them and the rest of the European Union should take responsibility for loaning out money to an insolvent country and let their private banks default.
And no..We don’t need Goldman Sachs and JP. Morgan. Just as I don’t want to bail out Greece I don’t want to bail out greedy bankers.
The EU can more than afford to aid Greece. QE is underway, so we'll see how Greece uses it.
Norway, Finland, Denmark and Norway have a significant higher output than Greece which makes it possible for them to have larger welfare state. All these countries have their individual troubles. The price of oil is going down which effects the Norway negative. Finland refines petroleum which has lost some value because of the decreased oil prices. Denmark has deep problems with an ineffective welfare state and energy sector. The socialist-liberal regime of Denmark has really turned it upside down with their utopian dreams. At least we are allowed to say what we want and will not be fired from our jobs saying it. Sweden is actually worse off any of the Scandinavian countries. Take the worst San Francisco liberal hippies and make them run a country and you understand what Sweden has become. It has a very high unemployment and an increasing public debt but still they give away much of their wealth to citizens of third world countries. They are also wasting an enormous amount of money on social projects which gives little more than just paper cuts. If it wasn’t for their highly effective private sector their hipster elites wouldn’t be able to have so much money to spend on nothing. It is actually a really scary country because debate about pressuring matters (if want to keep your job) is not allowed in public sphere.
I think Norway, Iceland, Denmark and Finland will do okay in the future market turmoil’s because there are freer debate climate here and people seem to understand some very basics in economics. Sweden will blow up when the money runs out. Many corporations (I don’t talk about international corporations but medium sized industries) are actually leaving Sweden. There is also an exodus of young academics which works in Norway and Denmark because there is little work available in Sweden. Their social capital is also dropping rapidly. There are beggars and ghettos everywhere. I kind of hope they close the Øresund Bridge because when the s… hit the fan.
LOL, you're preaching to the choir, it was "greywar" who was defending the scandinavian countries, not me.
Glad to see this. This is a historical defeat. Now, we will see if Greece goes back to the Drachma.
So, what if they do?
Do you seriously think banks will be lining up to loan money to Greece?
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey
lol@hyperinflation
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Today I am not so sure. Hyperinflation.....I dont think so, but certainly extremely high inflation. Depends on if they default on their external debt or not.
Yeah, $1 USD equals 325 Greek Drachma.
No hyperinflation there.
That was the exchange rate on November 30, 1999.
In 1986 I was walking (and flying) around Greece with 5,000 DR notes in my pocket.
How about you?
Do you walk around the US with nothing but $100, $500, $1,000 and $5,000 USD banknotes in your pocket?
Who would be so freaking stupid as to walk around Greece with a 10 Drachma note in their pocket?
What the hell are you going to buy with that?
Nothing.
I really do hope Greece goes back to the Drachma......so everyone can laugh in the face of all the "Monetary Sovereignty" morons and the idiots who are clueless about monetary policies and austerity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty
Did you count the contractors that only do business with the Federal Government? State governments?
It's a fallacy to make a comparison that you made and then draw conclusions without first establishing a baseline that we are talking about the same thing in each country. You have not done this.
Good job.
And no, he can't even find one of any 17 different government websites to prove his point so, it's not like he can find and compare baselines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Oh noes! You may have not included contractors that only do federal government business!
So other then complaining about something...what are you trying to claim?
Um, you said....
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
So lets look at facts.
....and then you did this....
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
....lying or misrepresenting what they are is not helpful.
You lied and misrepresented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
The US? 16.42%.....and falling.
You failed to count contractors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
that the US has more government employees via indirect employment? Or are you trying to claim Greece does?
By attrition in most cases, federal employees are being replaced by contractors.
Since I'm certain you have no idea what you're talking about and all you'll do is mislead others, I'll use OSHA Technical Center as an example of how wrong you are.
Director: federal employee
Program Administrator: federal employee
Purchasing Agent: federal employee
Contracting Agent: federal employee
Contracting Agent: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Secretary: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Shipping/Receiving Clerk: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
IT Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technical Manager
Technical Administrator: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Originally, 14 federal employees.
Now, 5 federal employees and 9 contractors.
Do you need help with the math?
5 + 9 = 14
See?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp
I still would like to see them flip a middle finger to the banks.
Yeah, and they can start wiping their butts with 100,000 Drachma notes....
They were forced into taking on much more debt than they could support by a cartel of EU banks desperate for borrowers. When the banks restabilized they put Greece into what amounted to debtors prison. The Greeks realized they have been robbed on a massive scale and are probably going to either renegotiate the terms or just cancel the debt. This is the appropriate response to the EU banksters.
This is untrue. Greece was up to their eye balls in debt way before they joined the euro.
Do you seriously think banks will be lining up to loan money to Greece?
Yeah, $1 USD equals 325 Greek Drachma.
No hyperinflation there.
That was the exchange rate on November 30, 1999.
In 1986 I was walking (and flying) around Greece with 5,000 DR notes in my pocket.
How about you?
Do you walk around the US with nothing but $100, $500, $1,000 and $5,000 USD banknotes in your pocket?
Who would be so freaking stupid as to walk around Greece with a 10 Drachma note in their pocket?
What the hell are you going to buy with that?
Nothing.
I really do hope Greece goes back to the Drachma......so everyone can laugh in the face of all the "Monetary Sovereignty" morons and the idiots who are clueless about monetary policies and austerity.
Good job.
And no, he can't even find one of any 17 different government websites to prove his point so, it's not like he can find and compare baselines.
Um, you said....
....and then you did this....
You lied and misrepresented.
You failed to count contractors.
By attrition in most cases, federal employees are being replaced by contractors.
Since I'm certain you have no idea what you're talking about and all you'll do is mislead others, I'll use OSHA Technical Center as an example of how wrong you are.
Director: federal employee
Program Administrator: federal employee
Purchasing Agent: federal employee
Contracting Agent: federal employee
Contracting Agent: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Secretary: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Shipping/Receiving Clerk: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
IT Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technical Manager
Technical Administrator: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Originally, 14 federal employees.
Now, 5 federal employees and 9 contractors.
Do you need help with the math?
5 + 9 = 14
See?
Yeah, and they can start wiping their butts with 100,000 Drachma notes....
Mircea
OOhhhh noes...you've somehow pointed out 9 contractors.
Look Mircea, i comprehend the argument, but I notice....you dont actually provide any DATA. You argue about 9 contractors. Nor do you have the data for the other countries.
And what EXACTLY is your argument? Hey want to argue that America has more then Greece? Sure! Lets hear the argument. Does it matter?
I notice everyone ignores Canada in the discussion as well. My argument wasn't about Denmark or Switzerland, it was pointing out FACTS.
1. Greece does not have 1/3 of its employees from the government.
2. MANY other countries have more then greece, and arent suddenly falling into the ocean
And yet weirdly enough, you want to argue that....many other countries have more....thus disproving my argu......wait...what? You're HELPING my point. Sheesh.
Greeces problems isn't government contractors.
Furthermore...greece spending compared to other countries in Europe was about average.
Weird.
Greece has a revenue problem. I know you folks dont like to hear this, but Greeces rich avoid taxes as a national hobby. And look where its gotten them.
Now they're voting in this guy.
And what I really love is...your argument for hyperinflation is based on the past inflation....
Almost like you dont know what the definition of hyperinflation IS. Here let me help:
Hyperinflation is a situation where the price increases are so out of control that the concept of inflation is meaningless.
Sigh. I had hoped for some insight from you Mircea, but instead you spent way too much time trying to attack me.....by helping prove my point.
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