Syriza wins election in Greece (house of representatives, Congress, ethics, how much)

[greywar]

Originally Posted by itsjustmeagain

This is untrue. Greece was up to their eye balls in debt way before they joined the euro.

Theres a mixture of truth in there too actually. You are absolutely correct, going in they had WAY too much debt. But the Euro has made it worse, and theres some interactions between Germany and the rest of the EU that hammered countries like Greece.

I think they thought the EU was going to hugely beneficial to them, without actually understanding what a common currency would do to them. It was idiotic at a massive level.

[greywar]

PS folks....heres the bottom line so many people forget.

The Greek government is running a surplus before interest payments.

So if this guy is promising stuff? Hes going to default, and plans on using that surplus to help his people.

Another fun fact:
Greek sovereign debt stood at 113% of GDP in 2009 and with the Memoranda's mandatory austerity program has not reduced that, but has increased that debt to 175% of GDP

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by greywar

1. Greece does not have 1/3 of its employees from the government.

Some background:

Public employment grew by fivefold from 1970 through 2009 — at an annual growth rate of 4 percent, according to a recent academic study by Zafiris Tzannatos and Iannis Monogios.. Over the same four decades, employment in the private sector increased by only 27 percent — an annual rate of less than 1 percent.

Typical bureaucracy...

According to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, in some government agencies overstaffing was considered to be around 50 percent

Wages in the public sector were on average almost one and half times higher than in the private sector. Government spending on public employees’ salaries and social benefits rose by around 6.5 percentage points of G.D.P. from 2000 to 2009, while revenue declined by 5 percentage points during the same period. The solution was to borrow more.

Public sector wages account for some 27 percent of the government’s total expenditures

2. MANY other countries have more then greece, and arent suddenly falling into the ocean

Many countries also have a strong private sector which Greece does not.

In the past, a more productive and expanding private sector could have withstood — to a degree — the financial drain of a costly and profligate public sector. Today, shielding the public sector is no longer an option, especially when it comes at the expense of the rest of the population.

[Suncc49]

1) Greece is pretty much in Chapter 13 with current austerity programs not working as well as planned...

2) New guy promises rainbows and skittles for all and chicken in every pot, they will most likely default and move off the EURO.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by greywar

PS folks....heres the bottom line so many people forget.

The Greek government is running a surplus before interest payments.

So if this guy is promising stuff? Hes going to default, and plans on using that surplus to help his people.

Another fun fact:
Greek sovereign debt stood at 113% of GDP in 2009 and with the Memoranda's mandatory austerity program has not reduced that, but has increased that debt to 175% of GDP

They got massive EU loans. When they default, the free sh*t stops.

[knowledgeiskey]

Originally Posted by Mircea

So, what if they do?

Do you seriously think banks will be lining up to loan money to Greece?





Yeah, $1 USD equals 325 Greek Drachma.

No hyperinflation there.

That was the exchange rate on November 30, 1999.

In 1986 I was walking (and flying) around Greece with 5,000 DR notes in my pocket.

How about you?

Do you walk around the US with nothing but $100, $500, $1,000 and $5,000 USD banknotes in your pocket?

Who would be so freaking stupid as to walk around Greece with a 10 Drachma note in their pocket?

What the hell are you going to buy with that?

Nothing.

I really do hope Greece goes back to the Drachma......so everyone can laugh in the face of all the "Monetary Sovereignty" morons and the idiots who are clueless about monetary policies and austerity.



Good job.

And no, he can't even find one of any 17 different government websites to prove his point so, it's not like he can find and compare baselines.



Um, you said....



....and then you did this....



You lied and misrepresented.



You failed to count contractors.



By attrition in most cases, federal employees are being replaced by contractors.

Since I'm certain you have no idea what you're talking about and all you'll do is mislead others, I'll use OSHA Technical Center as an example of how wrong you are.

Director: federal employee
Program Administrator: federal employee
Purchasing Agent: federal employee
Contracting Agent: federal employee
Contracting Agent: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Secretary: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Shipping/Receiving Clerk: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
IT Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technical Manager
Technical Administrator: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job
Technician: contractor position --- formerly a full-time federal job

Originally, 14 federal employees.

Now, 5 federal employees and 9 contractors.

Do you need help with the math?

5 + 9 = 14

See?



Yeah, and they can start wiping their butts with 100,000 Drachma notes....

Mircea

Currency devaluation=/= hyperinflation

Greece's problem has to do with being in the Eurozone. Being under the Eurozone doesn't allow countries to fulfill their fiscal needs to their liking. They're virtually in a gold standard. Greece has to implement austerity because it can't spend beyond what the Eurozone allows it to.


The Eurozone was poorly designed. It didn't account for fiscal differences between various countries.

[Hyperthetic]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

They got massive EU loans. When they default, the free sh*t stops.

Let Europe eat cake!

[oberon_1]

Greece like some other EU members had no business being part of the Euro zone in the first place. The whole idea behind the Euro is flawed. You cant put Greece and Portugal on the same platform with Germany and hope for the best. They took away one of the most important tools of any sovereign country - setting the interest rate and cirrency value. In their ignorance EU also let Romania and Bulgaria join in.
Years ago, after Italy joined the Euro, prices rose 30% overnight! It was a serious blow to the population (especially in the south) and now Greece is expensive for tourism as well. A hotel in Athens costs the same (astronomical) price like in Paris.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey

Glad to see this. This is a historical defeat. Now, we will see if Greece goes back to the Drachma. Let's hope Syriza keeps its word.

Why do we have to hope for that?

[HappyTexan]

We shall see what the hard left do.

Deep in debt, demanding that the EU give them money and promising FREE stuff to all the citizens.
Should be an interesting year.