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Israel never stole any land from Palestinians. It wasn't theirs to steal--it belonged to the British Empire when Israel was founded in 1948. If Muslims and liberals have an issue with Israel's founding, they should be blaming the British and taking it up with them instead of launching terror attacks against Jews.
Furthermore, there is archaeological evidence that Israel was a Jewish country 2000 years before Mohammed was even born. There was never a sovereign Arab Muslim country called "Palestine" there, at all.
In addition, Israel is the only liberal democracy in the MENA region--why would ever want to have another Muslim $hithole in MENA by erasing it and making it "Palestine"? I wish liberals would think about this. Israel is the only Jewish country, in a sea of many Muslim nations. Every other ethnic group and religion in the world has their own country--why can't we have our own without facing hatred?
I support Israel. They are the only democratic country in the region, and the only one that offers basic human rights to it's citizens. All the surrounding arab countries are still stuck in the dark ages.
OK, be honest with me folks, how many Israel supporters here also believe that Israel was given to the Jews by God?
Because the Republican party officially believes that Israel was given to the Jews by God, and I just want to know how many people believe in this mumbo jumbo
Whereas, Israel has been granted her lands under and through the oldest recorded deed as reported in the Old Testament, a tome of scripture held sacred and reverenced by Jew and Christian, alike, as the acts and words of God; and
Whereas, as the Grantor of said lands, God stated to the Jewish people in the Old Testament; in Leviticus, Chapter 20, Verse 24: “Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey”; and
Whereas, God has never rescinded his grant of said lands; and
Whereas, along with the grant of said lands to the Jewish people, God provided for the non-Jewish residents of the land in commanding that governance must be in one law for all without drawing distinction between Jewish and non-Jewish citizens, as contained in Leviticus 24:22, and...
Whereas, the roots of Israel and the roots of the United States of America are so intertwined that it is difficult to separate one from the other under the word and protection of almighty God;
"Israel" steals more land from Palestinians, builds garbage dump where
their homes were, and leaves childrens homes within meters of landfill
Israel Expels 120, Seizes Private Palestinian Land for Landfill Site -- News from Antiwar.com
I'm having a hard time caring...Middle East fatigue is setting in.
OK, be honest with me folks, how many Israel supporters here also believe that Israel was given to the Jews by God?
Because the Republican party officially believes that Israel was given to the Jews by God, and I just want to know how many people believe in this mumbo jumbo
I don't believe that, but I don't think it even matters at this point, any more. The fact is millions of people live in Israel now, several have lived there for generations. What are you going to do, tell them it's not legitimate and they have to leave? Where are they going to go? The damage is already done, time to move on and deal with it the way it is now. The past is irrelevant at this point.
The past is never irrelevant. It's not irrelevant to the 70% of Israeli Jews who think they are God's Chosen People. And it's not irrelevant to the Arabs who think Israel is country of thieves, and it wasn't irrelevant to Al Qaeda when they did 9/11
If we can get the Republicans to get rid of their 2012 resolution that Israel was given to the Jews by God, then we're making progress. The US can be more neutral in the Zionist-Arab conflict. If the Zionists admit they stole the land, maybe that will get them to compromise more with the Palestinians. In South Africa, when the pro-apartheid whites let black South Africans take over, ANC terrorism stopped, reconciliation could occur.
Even the sanctions and assassinations against Iran can be relaxed without all this weird Zionist stuff poisoning everything
Oh and if the Zionists all got up and left, I'd argue that they'd actually have significantly better lives by moving to America. Right now only 0.6% of Israel's trade is with its Arab neighbors, if I'm looking at data on this page correctly http://atlas.media.mit.edu/profile/country/isr/
America is a safer , richer place and since Israel trades so little with its neighbors already, trade would be way more efficient if the people just got up and came over here.
But this scenario is wishful thinking
The past is never irrelevant. It's not irrelevant to the 70% of Israeli Jews who think they are God's Chosen People. And it's not irrelevant to the Arabs who think Israel is country of thieves, and it wasn't irrelevant to Al Qaeda when they did 9/11
If we can get the Republicans to get rid of their 2012 resolution that Israel was given to the Jews by God, then we're making progress. The US can be more neutral in the Zionist-Arab conflict. If the Zionists admit they stole the land, maybe that will get them to compromise more with the Palestinians. In South Africa, when the pro-apartheid whites let black South Africans take over, ANC terrorism stopped, reconciliation could occur.
Even the sanctions and assassinations against Iran can be relaxed without all this weird Zionist stuff poisoning everything
Oh and if the Zionists all got up and left, I'd argue that they'd actually have significantly better lives by moving to America. Right now only 0.6% of Israel's trade is with its Arab neighbors, if I'm looking at data on this page correctly OEC: Israel (ISR) Profile of Exports, Imports and Trade Partners
America is a safer , richer place and since Israel trades so little with its neighbors already, trade would be way more efficient if the people just got up and came over here.
But this scenario is wishful thinking
I used to think like you do, when I was younger. I don't think like that anymore because I have met so many Israelis in my life by now that I don't think there's anything crazy religious or inherently evil about them. They are nice people and they work hard in their country to build it as a safe place that's tolerant of other kinds of faiths, races, sexuality, beliefs. They are so unlike all their neighboring countries, where women are stoned for being raped, female circumcision is practiced, etc.
I don't think a majority of them believe they are building some kind of end times Temple, but they do have a lot of reverence for their holy land, and that's why they choose to live there. They generally like Americans, from what I have found, but they are also very nationalistic, which is something Americans used to be before we were divided into liberal/conservative camps.
The thing about Iran is that they may still choose to hate us, even if we weren't allies with Israel. They are a snobby country, Iran, they have a bit of a superiority complex, so we wouldn't do ourselves any good trying to pander to them when they think they are better than all their neighbors and everyone else in the world (except Russia, they like Russia).
Israel never stole any land from Palestinians. It wasn't theirs to steal--it belonged to the British Empire when Israel was founded in 1948. If Muslims and liberals have an issue with Israel's founding, they should be blaming the British and taking it up with them instead of launching terror attacks against Jews.
Furthermore, there is archaeological evidence that Israel was a Jewish country 2000 years before Mohammed was even born. There was never a sovereign Arab Muslim country called "Palestine" there, at all.
In addition, Israel is the only liberal democracy in the MENA region--why would ever want to have another Muslim $hithole in MENA by erasing it and making it "Palestine"? I wish liberals would think about this. Israel is the only Jewish country, in a sea of many Muslim nations. Every other ethnic group and religion in the world has their own country--why can't we have our own without facing hatred?
Do you know what America look like 2000 years ago? I suppose you don't have a problem with that because a consistent argument is completely undermined when bias comes into play.
Like it or not, they both live there. Personally, I don't care what religion dominated the region. Israel is not my problem. I have no problem with the Jews having it, but who they hell do they think they are uprooting homes to built a land fill? That's they type of **** I expect from Islamic terrorists.
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Originally Posted by Mangokiwi
I support Israel. They are the only democratic country in the region, and the only one that offers basic human rights to it's citizens. All the surrounding arab countries are still stuck in the dark ages.
What do you mean still? Iran was doing fine 50 years ago until some bad decisions were made. Iraq, while certainly no wonderland, was doing better 15 years ago than it is today. WE managed to set them back 50 years in about 10, which is actually impressive when you think about.
I used to think like you do, when I was younger. I don't think like that anymore because I have met so many Israelis in my life by now that I don't think there's anything crazy religious or inherently evil about them. They are nice people and they work hard in their country to build it as a safe place that's tolerant of other kinds of faiths, races, sexuality, beliefs. They are so unlike all their neighboring countries, where women are stoned for being raped, female circumcision is practiced, etc.
I don't think a majority of them believe they are building some kind of end times Temple, but they do have a lot of reverence for their holy land, and that's why they choose to live there. They generally like Americans, from what I have found, but they are also very nationalistic, which is something Americans used to be before we were divided into liberal/conservative camps.
The thing about Iran is that they may still choose to hate us, even if we weren't allies with Israel. They are a snobby country, Iran, they have a bit of a superiority complex, so we wouldn't do ourselves any good trying to pander to them when they think they are better than all their neighbors and everyone else in the world (except Russia, they like Russia).
I wouldn't say they are inherently evil. The Holocaust caused a huge psychological problem with the Jews, understandably, and the Zionists got a lot of support because of that.
Still, 70% of Israeli Jews literally believe they are God's Chosen People. That seems religiously crazy to me, frankly. Who goes around thinking their ethnic group was chosen by God? When Muslims think similar things, we think their nuts. When Jews do it, well, gosh, they're just right? No.
I totally get that Israel is basically a liberal Democrat country in the middle of the Middle East. It has had national health care since 1948. It is anti-climate change, gay friendly, taxes the rich and gives to the poor, all that jazz.
The thing is, it's still a European colony. It's a democracy that has kicked out or marginalized all of the people who disagreed with them to begin with.
Take a look at UN Resolution 181. Not a single Arab country in the region voted yes on that resolution, which the Zionists claim gave them the right to establish Israel in 1948. Had the Middle East been a democracy in 1948, with every Arab being able to vote on whether or not Israel should be established, the Zionists would have utterly lost this hypothetical vote. So you're saying it's a great democracy, and yet we know that if the area had been democratic back then, or today, no one would've voted yes for Israel. It would be a massive no vote.
I wouldn't say they are inherently evil. The Holocaust caused a huge psychological problem with the Jews, understandably, and the Zionists got a lot of support because of that.
Still, 70% of Israeli Jews literally believe they are God's Chosen People. That seems religiously crazy to me, frankly. Who goes around thinking their ethnic group was chosen by God? When Muslims think similar things, we think their nuts. When Jews do it, well, gosh, they're just right? No.
I totally get that Israel is basically a liberal Democrat country in the middle of the Middle East. It has had national health care since 1948. It is anti-climate change, gay friendly, taxes the rich and gives to the poor, all that jazz.
The thing is, it's still a European colony. It's a democracy that has kicked out or marginalized all of the people who disagreed with them to begin with.
Take a look at UN Resolution 181. Not a single Arab country in the region voted yes on that resolution, which the Zionists claim gave them the right to establish Israel in 1948. Had the Middle East been a democracy in 1948, with every Arab being able to vote on whether or not Israel should be established, the Zionists would have utterly lost this hypothetical vote. So you're saying it's a great democracy, and yet we know that if the area had been democratic back then, or today, no one would've voted yes for Israel. It would be a massive no vote.
Beautifully worded.
Knowledge is knowing that Western colonialism ended in the mid 1900s. Wisdom is knowing that Western Colonialism is still happening to this day.
Of all the Abrahamic religions, Jews remain my favorite. I prefer Jesus over Abraham or Muhammad, but his followers have historically been nothing like him. In fact, they may have been polar opposites. But Jews, despite their official doctrine seeming crazy stupid to me, are by far the best group. They're more secular and intelligent.
With that said, both parties have valid claims to the land. WE can let our bias cloud our judgment all we want, but both have lived their long enough to have claims to the land. We can micromanage Israel all we want; this problem isn't going to go away anytime soon. A two party solution needs to be reached, the problem is the shared reluctance. And the Hamas. They're gonna mess that up.
The past is never irrelevant. It's not irrelevant to the 70% of Israeli Jews who think they are God's Chosen People. And it's not irrelevant to the Arabs who think Israel is country of thieves, and it wasn't irrelevant to Al Qaeda when they did 9/11
If the past is never irrelevant, then the Jews own Israel since they were the original people there before a people known as "Palestinians" came into existence and your argument falls completely apart. So you may want to rethink that.
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If we can get the Republicans to get rid of their 2012 resolution that Israel was given to the Jews by God, then we're making progress.
No, we're not. Progress is not defined as "whatever shihku7 thinks".
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The US can be more neutral in the Zionist-Arab conflict. If the Zionists admit they stole the land, maybe that will get them to compromise more with the Palestinians. In South Africa, when the pro-apartheid whites let black South Africans take over, ANC terrorism stopped, reconciliation could occur.
The Zionists didn't steal the land. The Arabs attacked the Jews and lost the war. If someone shoots their gun and you and you take the gun away you haven't "stolen" the gun. You've defended yourself. The Arabs lost that land because they used it as a staging ground for attacking Israel and then Israel beat them back.
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Even the sanctions and assassinations against Iran can be relaxed without all this weird Zionist stuff poisoning everything
No, they can't because the sanctions are due to Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons.
Quote:
Oh and if the Zionists all got up and left, I'd argue that they'd actually have significantly better lives by moving to America. Right now only 0.6% of Israel's trade is with its Arab neighbors, if I'm looking at data on this page correctly OEC: Israel (ISR) Profile of Exports, Imports and Trade Partners
America is a safer , richer place and since Israel trades so little with its neighbors already, trade would be way more efficient if the people just got up and came over here.
But this scenario is wishful thinking
But without Israel America would be a less safe and less rich place. Israel is our foothold and strongest ally in a region of the world that is critical to our national security.
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