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Old 03-15-2015, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,644 posts, read 26,389,506 times
Reputation: 12655

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
If that's right, then how do we explain the Tea Party protests?


The way you explain the Tea Party protests is that there is no left vs right political conflict in America.

In fact, there really isn`t a left.

Liberals, true liberals, disappeared with the hippies at about the time they became the establishment they had been fighting.

Money and corruption makes strange bedfellows.

The real political conflict of our time is between statists and Constitutionalists.

Statists are generally net beneficiaries of an oversized central government that is largely unaccountable to tax payers.

Constitutionalists, like those in the Tea Party movement, hope to stop the statists before they do more damage to America.

 
Old 03-15-2015, 07:29 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,524,460 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
The way you explain the Tea Party protests is that there is no left vs right political conflict in America.

In fact, there really isn`t a left.

Liberals, true liberals, disappeared with the hippies at about the time they became the establishment they had been fighting.

Money and corruption makes strange bedfellows.

The real political conflict of our time is between statists and Constitutionalists.

Statists are generally net beneficiaries of an oversized central government that is largely unaccountable to tax payers.

Constitutionalists, like those in the Tea Party movement, hope to stop the statists before they do more damage to America.
That is an interesting suggestion.

Nigel Farage also insists that we are no longer debating left vs right, but he presents the current conflict as between nationalism vs globalism.
 
Old 03-15-2015, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,366,997 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Wutotz, I argue with a lot of folks on both sides. By far the right tends to repeat things they are told, rather then facts. Yes some on the right will discuss facts, but by far that's more common for me to see on the left.

I know there's a huge narrative where the right characterizes the left as you just did, but look at the arguments.
The right by far approves of leaving decisions in the hands of the individual, whether it comes to guns, money or speech. The left invariably prefers guns, money, speech, and ultimately power concentrated in the hands of the collective. And yet you believe the right 'tends to repeat things they are told?'

Again, you have it exactly backwards.
 
Old 03-16-2015, 03:55 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
The right by far approves of leaving decisions in the hands of the individual, whether it comes to guns, money or speech. The left invariably prefers guns, money, speech, and ultimately power concentrated in the hands of the collective. And yet you believe the right 'tends to repeat things they are told?'

Again, you have it exactly backwards.
LOL

Guns? Sure, I agree. More of gun registration, but some of their extremists are certainly anti gun. Probably the one part I agree with you about.

Money? Sorry no. Republicans have increased spending over and over. All the while they talk about how they are the party of financial sanity. Seriously, actions matter.

Speech? Please. Republicans are all about free speech...as long as they agree with that speech.

power concentrated in the hands of the collective. Hmmm...complicated. The other choice we often see with the Republicans is power concentrated in a few. Mostly the rich few-although again to be fair I've seen more of that in the Democratic side lately as well.

Individual freedoms? You mean like to marry whomever they want? Or?

But look at the comments people make.
 
Old 03-16-2015, 04:15 AM
 
26,506 posts, read 15,084,039 times
Reputation: 14664
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
The left share a plethora of ideas and approaches, whereas the right is run in lockstep, and conformity is required. With such a mindset, there is often little dissent within its own ranks.
You are generalizing way too much and at the same time the left is as guilty of what you accuse the right of.

Obama's entire presidency has been about lockstep conformity and not thinking. During the campaign chant in unison like a mantra! Hate Bush for this huge list and faint when Obama blasts Bush for it -- shut your brain off when it is pointed out that Obama has now down virtually the entire list and in fact out-Bushed Bush on most of the list. Attack whistle blowers, they are dissenters! Declare that the debate is over and you won then have your top minion declare that you have to vote for it to know what is in it. "Don't think" should be the Obama catchphrase.
 
Old 03-16-2015, 04:36 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
You are generalizing way too much and at the same time the left is as guilty of what you accuse the right of.

Obama's entire presidency has been about lockstep conformity and not thinking. During the campaign chant in unison like a mantra! Hate Bush for this huge list and faint when Obama blasts Bush for it -- shut your brain off when it is pointed out that Obama has now down virtually the entire list and in fact out-Bushed Bush on most of the list. Attack whistle blowers, they are dissenters! Declare that the debate is over and you won then have your top minion declare that you have to vote for it to know what is in it. "Don't think" should be the Obama catchphrase.
Ahhhh....good response actually, with some painful truths in it as well. I disagree about the lockstep conformity, but the rest isn't all that off in my opinion. I wish the Right was better on any of this. So far I haven't seen it. I keep hoping that someone on the right will show up as a presidential candidate that at least acts like they will do better. Ditto on the left. Its entirely possible I will vote third party this year at the rate these idiots are going.
 
Old 03-16-2015, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,026,245 times
Reputation: 62204
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
I use to think that in most countries political conflict was mostly about the left fighting the right, but now that I have some life experience I have started to notice that the left actually spends almost as much time hating on other portions of the left as it does the right.
Are you suggesting we arm the moderate lefties?
 
Old 03-16-2015, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,799,372 times
Reputation: 24863
What makes you think we are not?
 
Old 03-16-2015, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,651,295 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
Why is it that right-wingers generally are more able to work with other right-wingers while left-wingers are always at each others throats?
I think blind party loyalty is actually a bigger problem, than taking a stance on issues.
 
Old 03-16-2015, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,799,372 times
Reputation: 24863
The left wing argues with itself for the same reason the right wing argues with itself. It is the same reason religions argue with themselves and each other. Individuals have always has different views of the one right, or left, way just as they have differed over how to petition god.

These differences make for interesting times.
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