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Boo-hoo, poor ****in` unions are getting a bad rap.
I`m not sure where you were living during the `60s and `70s when union jobs were the norm and everybody had a union job horror story like, "My job is to put in five screws when the part comes by, but I only put in three because three will hold it and I know no one is checking."
Unions have engineered their own demise by aligning themselves with a political party that hates white males and everything that is uniquely American.
Having said that, nothing in this discussion is absolute all the time and there are lots of smart solutions to falling wages and reduced worker demand.
The Corporate ***** wing of the Republican Party working hand in hand with the Clinton Administration gave us NAFTA and the 2000 China Trade Act.
Aside from promises made in the 2008 Democratic primary race, we aren`t even talking about renegotiating these give away trade deals, so how does union membership help when anyone can make anything in third world countries and sell it here?
It has to be one or the other.
We cannot have both free trade and union jobs.
We cannot have guest workers, open borders, amnesty and living wages for ordinary Americans.
Something has to give.
It's apparent that someone's reasoning power already has.
No - your just plain selfish. You think that because you were born at the right latitude and longitude you should be able to learn less, have less skills (or same) and get paid more.
THIS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago
Jobs like "factory" jobs won't exist in the US. Those old school jobs from post WW2 america are either 1) replaced by robots and engineers with college degrees 2) moved to a country with cheaper labor
MOVE ON AND ADAPT (or take less pay, and less and less)- you can ***** all you want about the tractor MR Shovelman, but the tractor is here to stay.
Just wanted to add some anecdotal "evidence" to this quality advice of adaptation because I've developed two different skill sets that technology and progress have made obsolete.
In my teens, drafting was still a decently lucrative profession, and I was naturally talented at it and really enjoyed it as well. In the early 80s I was making $20-40 an hour doing drafting piece work as a sub-contractor, and I was a teenager. AutoCAD killed that profession, as in made it totally obsolete. So off to college/military I go...
Then I became an electronics bench tech, to the point where I was doing repair work with a microscope. But technology improvements along with the plummeting of costs in replacement circuits/cards/etc has made that profession obsolete as well. An entire city now can be serviced by one electronics repair shop, given that most stuff is all but disposable anymore. Last three times I've turned a soldering iron for electronics was fixing a buddy's model rocket launcher set up, changing the capacitors in my guitar, and putting a Cylon eye effect under my toaster. Back in the day, a microminiature bench tech could make $40-50 an hour. Now, you may do a random solder job on your kid's Beats headphones because they dropped them and you actually have a soldering iron laying around.
Two times something I was really good at and got paid pretty well to do has been made almost totally obsolete. Yet, somehow, I currently make a really good living...DOING SOMETHING ELSE. And who knows, maybe next week the world decides that Big Data, Analytics, Business Intelligence and Data Warehousing are useless, and my current skill set is made obsolete. Could happen, and I guess I'll find something else to do that has value if and/or when that occurs.
And I am in the whole "they took our jobs" super competitive IT world. Adapt or perish is the order of the day, and a skill set that isn't constantly evolving, increasing, and updating will soon find itself obsolete. Hell, my own skill set has evolved just inside this little niche of mine like 6 times in the last 15 years. That's how it goes, so keep up or get left behind.
There are pleny of customers for those products in China, just not those making slave wages. Even if only 10 percent can afford it, thats over 100M people. Same with India.
They will make less profits for shareholder sharks on Wall Street though than selling at elevated prices to Americans
. Americans don't need to "make financial sense" to these pirate megacorporations with allegience to no people or country on Earth.
It is THEY that need US-the largest consumer group ON THE PLANET. Some of these globalist neo-CONS have absolutely no spine or pride in their country. We built the largest middle class in the history of the World, and they are willing to throw it all away for the sake of the greed of a FEW men-many foreigners.
They want complete access to the largest and wealthiest consumer group on the planet while at the same time having access to the cheapest labor on the planet?
They will need to PAY AMERICANS for that luxury, and no I don't just mean the leeches in Congress. We can no longer afford to sell ourselves for pennies on the dollar to these nationless entities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW
Then we need to create tariffs so that they have some skin in the game if they want to sell back to the Americans they just ditched.
Otherwise, good luck selling your 650 dollar Iphones to the Chinese that make a dollar a day.
Excellent posts both....thank you. Tried but couldn't rep either one of you again since you both make a habit of excellent posts.
A thread like this sure brings them out of the woodwork, doesn't it? Our national suicide rolls on....
Just wanted to add some anecdotal "evidence" to this quality advice of adaptation because I've developed two different skill sets that technology and progress have made obsolete.
In my teens, drafting was still a decently lucrative profession, and I was naturally talented at it and really enjoyed it as well. In the early 80s I was making $20-40 an hour doing drafting piece work as a sub-contractor, and I was a teenager. AutoCAD killed that profession, as in made it totally obsolete. So off to college/military I go...
Then I became an electronics bench tech, to the point where I was doing repair work with a microscope. But technology improvements along with the plummeting of costs in replacement circuits/cards/etc has made that profession obsolete as well. An entire city now can be serviced by one electronics repair shop, given that most stuff is all but disposable anymore. Last three times I've turned a soldering iron for electronics was fixing a buddy's model rocket launcher set up, changing the capacitors in my guitar, and putting a Cylon eye effect under my toaster. Back in the day, a microminiature bench tech could make $40-50 an hour. Now, you may do a random solder job on your kid's Beats headphones because they dropped them and you actually have a soldering iron laying around.
Two times something I was really good at and got paid pretty well to do has been made almost totally obsolete. Yet, somehow, I currently make a really good living...DOING SOMETHING ELSE. And who knows, maybe next week the world decides that Big Data, Analytics, Business Intelligence and Data Warehousing are useless, and my current skill set is made obsolete. Could happen, and I guess I'll find something else to do that has value if and/or when that occurs.
And I am in the whole "they took our jobs" super competitive IT world. Adapt or perish is the order of the day, and a skill set that isn't constantly evolving, increasing, and updating will soon find itself obsolete. Hell, my own skill set has evolved just inside this little niche of mine like 6 times in the last 15 years. That's how it goes, so keep up or get left behind.
Sorry but keep up or left behind is not gonna work when we have a huge amount of people out of work at a time. Sure you could updating and improving your abilities but their is not guarentee that those jobs will be their and surley not enough for everyone. This is the argument for lazy people who do not want to improve anything for anyone else just say I got mine if you didn't so what that is your fault.
Sorry but keep up or left behind is not gonna work when we have a huge amount of people out of work at a time. Sure you could updating and improving your abilities but their is not guarentee that those jobs will be their and surley not enough for everyone. This is the argument for lazy people who do not want to improve anything for anyone else just say I got mine if you didn't so what that is your fault.
I'll leave my standard agreement to disagree with you, since past debates prove you and I couldn't think more differently if we got cash prizes to do so.
Bottom line, people that want jobs get them, people that don't want them make excuses. It's not difficult to understand.
As though anyone here needs another lesson on the moral/ethical bankruptcy....the treason....of large corporations today.
But what is really fascinating is to watch the tools of the Republican party continue to celebrate their own demise in the streets.
NOPE, at least I am not a Republican.............consider the D/R flim-flam game a sad joke.
The cat is out of the bag, the USA had the Lion's share of manufacturing world post WW2. Those days are LONG gone.............say hello to computer aided manufacturing, computer aided assembly, standardized manufacturing standards and a whole lot of other things that make it much easier for anything to be manufactured in many different parts of the world.
USA lost a LOT of its competitive edge a LONG time ago.
Go ahead, blame it on Rhonnie Rayguns and the TeahadliKKKans!
Then we need to create tariffs so that they have some skin in the game if they want to sell back to the Americans they just ditched.
Otherwise, good luck selling your 650 dollar Iphones to the Chinese that make a dollar a day.
Yeah, and do you think when we start throwing up tariffs, they won't respond in kind?????
Myself, I do not want to be FORCED to buy overpriced American JUNK.
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. Americans don't need to "make financial sense" to these pirate megacorporations with allegience to no people or country on Earth.
As though anyone here needs another lesson on the moral/ethical bankruptcy....the treason....of large corporations today. 
