Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Absolutely incorrect. From SCOTUS in the HL ruling:
"When rights, whether constitutional or statutory, are extended to corporations, the purpose is to protect the rights of these people. For example, extending Fourth Amendment protection to corporations protects the privacy interests of employees and others associated with the company. Protecting corporations from government seizure of their property without just compensation protects all those who have a stake in the corporations’ financial well-being. And protecting the free-exercise rights of corporations like Hobby Lobby, Conestoga, and Mardel protects the religious liberty of the humans who own and control those companies"
No, he is not incorrect. The ruling is based off of the RFAR Act and not the 1st amendment. You seem to have a difficult time comprehending the fact that the plaintiffs did not make an argument on 1st amendment grounds, but they appealed on the Religious Freedom and Restoration Act. Without that Act the Federal Government would have won because there would be no strict scrutiny on when they denied someone an exemption from a law due to their religious beliefs. This is exactly why states are allowed to enact anti discrimination laws that do now allow people to make religious exemptions. Because they are not bound by the act.
There you go with your "not uh!". I point to you yet again that you cannot sacrifice people or rape or enslave them due to law.
Closely held corporation owners CAN decline to provide insurance for abortifacients and therefore also decline to provide goods/services for same sex weddings when doing so violates their religion. The SCOTUS HL ruling sets a very clear precedent that First Amendment rights cannot be violated when there are less burdensome means of achieving the same result. HL employees wishing to procure abortifacients and gay couples wishing to procure goods/services for their same sex weddings can easily acquire them by other means.
The First Amendment is sacrosanct. That's why Samir Shabazz had every right to exhort Blacks to "...kill some crackers; kill some of their babies..." without legal consequence at a public festival in Philly.
No, he is not incorrect. The ruling is based off of the RFAR Act and not the 1st amendment.
Only partially. The SCOTUS ruling very clearly refers to rights and gives Fourth Amendment rights as an example in justifying the ruling in favor of HL et al.
What cramming? You think by saying that government shall take no part in religious establishment and that everyone should be treated equally with NO special privileges up to and including the fact that you cannot use religion as an excuse for any actions outside of what is lawful?
Sure, that's cramming it down alright!
"What cramming?"
Duh, the cramming that has been going on for the past 50 years.
Maybe YOU need a refresher course in history on the subject.
There are some "religions" like the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints that should be treated as criminal gangs and completely eradicated. That is a place where the State should be involved with "religion".
Freedom of religion, is not defined as freedom from religion.... Today's definition of Church & State by the centralized government, was not the same as those that founded this nation.
"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
George Washington - The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.
"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."
John Adams - Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9
"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence."Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes to GOD; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
John Adams - June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.
"The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever."
John Adams - letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776.
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."
Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
Thomas Jefferson - The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."
John Hancock - History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.
"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshiped.
"That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;
"But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."
Benjamin Franklin - letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790
"And as it is our duty to extend our wishes to the happiness of the great family of man, I conceive that we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world that the rod of tyrants may be broken to pieces, and the oppressed made free again; that wars may cease in all the earth, and that the confusions that are and have been among nations may be overruled by promoting and speedily bringing on that holy and happy period when the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and all people everywhere willingly bow to the sceptre of Him who is Prince of Peace."
Samuel Adams - As Governor of Massachusetts, Proclamation of a Day of Fast, March 20, 1797
"A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest while we are building ideal monuments of Renown and Bliss here we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven."
James Madison - Written to William Bradford on November 9, 1772, Faith of Our Founding Fathers by Tim LaHaye, pp. 130-131; Christianity and the Constitution — The Faith of Our Founding Fathers by John Eidsmoe, p. 98.
"When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgments for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good."
James Monroe - his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.
"The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made 'bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God' (Isaiah 52:10)."
John Quincy Adams - Life of John Quincy Adams, p. 248.
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
Alexander Hamilton - Famous American Statesmen, p. 126.
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
Patrick Henry - The Trumpet Voice of Freedom: Patrick Henry of Virginia, p. iii.
"The Bible ... is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed."
Patrick Henry - Sketches of the Life and Character of Patrick Henry, p. 402.
Our founding fathers would beg to differ. There was a whole lot of God & Jesus Christ, in Government to bring freedom to this nation.
Freedom of religion, is much different than that of, freedom from religion.
Who do we believe? Government that is pushing on the 1st amendment of freedom, or our actual founding fathers of this once great nation.
Thanks for the great post. You make a great point. Socialists have a religion that worships big govt. and govt intervention to solve their problems instead of themselves. All religions should be tolerated. It is pushing religion on people that should not be. How ironic that socialists feel a need to push their agenda on people. Total hypocrites. If you do your homework properly you will figure out it is the socialist/fascist ideology that is responsible for interweaving religion with politics in America.
Thanks for the great post. You make a great point. Socialists have a religion that worships big govt. and govt intervention to solve their problems instead of themselves. All religions should be tolerated. It is pushing religion on people that should not be. How ironic that socialists feel a need to push their agenda on people. Total hypocrites.
Someone needs to look up the definition of a religion
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
