What does the confederate flag symbolize? (Putin, Mexicans, government, support)

[mikebnllnb]

The flag was rarely seen in public until it was resurrected in the late 50's when the civil right movement was gaining steam. It became the symbol of those fighting to retain segregation. It had nothing to do with pride or state rights! It was once again the symbol of hate and oppression it originally was. Regardless of how an individual feels about it, you cannot look beyond or ignore its real history. It is similar to neo-nazis venerating the swastika.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by Hellion1999

maybe you didn't read the 10th amendment!

If the union is indissoluble, then by definition you dont have a power to secede .

Nowhere in the constitution prohibits the states or the people from secession or to renounce your U.S. Citizenship.

Yes it does

in the Preamble, in Article 4 sections' 3 and 4.

And in Texas v. White

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?
.....When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.
...........

so you are wrong.

The Founding Fathers left the blue print for the people to secede if they felt that their government didn't represent them or became a tyrant. It never gave the ultimate power for the FEDS.

The Founding fathers left a blue print to create new states within the union, never to leave the union as a whole which is what you are claiming.



I'm sure King George told himself that over and over when dealing with the 13 colonies....how did that worked out?.....lol[/quote]

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by JimRom

Taking your comment to its logical conclusion, there was no provision in British law which allowed a colony to declare itself independent. So, does that mean the founders of the US were in the wrong? Or is it merely a matter of "might makes right" i.e. since the colonists won their war of independence they were in the right, while the confederates were in the wrong because they lost?

Nope, BOTH were in the wrong legally. Believing something is morally right does not make it legal under the current law.

That isnt a hard concept to understand and yet those of you who think a state can secede seem to not be able to understand it.

Personally, up until recently the "Confederate" flag didn't actually mean a thing to me. However, over the last few days it has come to symbolize a few things:

1. Political correctness taken beyond the bounds of logic or reality.

you have a right to that opinion.

2. A shining example of how the mainstream media will use any means necessary to provoke civil unrest and racial tension in America.

If you have been watching mainstream media, you would here them talk about the many times people have tried to remove these flags from public lands. So while you may not mean to, what you are really saying is that you have problem with the media reporting something that has already been going on.

3. The ease with which a large portion of the American public can be manipulated into believing almost anything as long as it is repeated enough times.

As stated, people didnt just start talking about the flag issue, it has been an issue for years but no one reported on it.

4. The death knell for freedom of speech in this country.

The people have a freedom of speech, not the government, the government does no have the right to say what they want as they are supposed to represent all people and a flag of rebellion against the United States should have never flown at any state capitol/capital in the first place.

5. The ease with which the American public can be distracted from real issues if the right engaging story is pushed hard enough.

Here we agree, we should be focusing on actual racism and taking it down, not just its symbol, but as many have said. If we have to fight over the symbol, how on earth are we going to be able to battle racism itself.

Every single person who actually believes that flying the "Confederate" flag means that one somehow endorses racism because some racists have used that flag as a rallying point is an utter moron.

I dont think anyone has claimed that everyone who flies that flag endorses racism.

The very same argument could be used to say that because you fly the United States flag you agree with everything that the United States has ever done, such as the wars in the Middle East and Vietnam and the extermination of American Indians. For that matter, considering that slavery was common in the original colonies, flying the United States flag while condemning those who fly the "Confederate" flag would make you a hypocrite, since the United States at one time endorsed slavery and was therefore racist.

It's a flag. It didn't commit any crime, it doesn't have any special powers, and it most assuredly is not responsible for the actions of some drug addicted loser jackwagon who committed a heinous crime on his own initiative.

no, that very same claim could not be made because the flag of the United States was not created specifically to preserve slavery where as the 3 official versions of the confederate flag and the 3 national battle flags all were.

You are being intellectually dishonest when claiming the 2 flag parallel in their reasoning for existence.

[It'sAutomatic]

It's a symbol of treason and has no place in our government. That said, trying to stop private citizens from buying it or displaying it is wrong.

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic

It's a symbol of treason and has no place in our government. That said, trying to stop private citizens from buying it or displaying it is wrong.

Nothing else needs to be said.

[mikebnllnb]

Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic

It's a symbol of treason and has no place in our government. That said, trying to stop private citizens from buying it or displaying it is wrong.

A business has the same right not to sell the flag. I can see why a business wouldn't want to sell it.

I do however find it off-putting that Amazon sells items with the swastika on them. How about some consistency?

[BraveHeart01]

[quote=MJJersey;40154935]What does the confederate flag mean to you? ...quote]
To me, the Confederate flag represents division. It represents the South's stand to war against the United States government in order to maintain a way of life based on slavery as a critical part of it's economy. Sen. Paul Thurmond, son of Sen. Strom Thurmond, gave an impassioned speech 6/23/2015. He called for the removal of the Confederate flag and stated that while he respects his heritage, he doesn't believe his father and others always made the right decision. Times have changed. I was impressed by his courage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFaV...ature=youtu.be

[KC_Sleuth]

I despise the confederacy. You can burn that flag as far as I'm concerned. I am NY-born Yankee with ancestors who fought for Ohio Union regiments, but even besides that...the confederacy has a terrible legacy. I don't understand why people have "confederate pride" when the confederacy was a losing proposition fighting for an immoral cause. If you want to know what the confederacy uprising stood for, read the Cornerstone Speech by confederate "vice president" Alexander Stephens. It blows away the stupid "lost cause" apologetics that surfaced during Reconstruction, and lays bare the real intentions of the confederacy. In it, Stephens articulates the vision for the confederacy and its fundamental purpose to fight:

- slavery is indeed the cause for succession, and according to Stephens the confederacy was designed to keep slaves "in their proper place".

- that enslaved African Americans were not equal to white men and women.

- that slavery is a natural condition.

If you also look at Southern preachers rants against abolitionists from that time period (many of these preachers would aid the confederacy or sympathize with it in some way), they stated that slavery was actually a biblical imperative, and that abolitionism was seen as a great evil.

I don't know how anyone in this day and age can look upon the confederacy with anything but disdain.

[jacqueg]

[quote=BraveHeart01;40178748]

Originally Posted by MJJersey

What does the confederate flag mean to you? ...quote]
To me, the Confederate flag represents division. It represents the South's stand to war against the United States government in order to maintain a way of life based on slavery as a critical part of it's economy. Sen. Paul Thurmond, son of Sen. Strom Thurmond, gave an impassioned speech 6/23/2015. He called for the removal of the Confederate flag and stated that while he respects his heritage, he doesn't believe his father and others always made the right decision. Times have changed. I was impressed by his courage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFaV...ature=youtu.be

Thanks for posting this. That came from his heart.

[KC_Sleuth]

Don't forget that even after the civil war, the confederate flag was embraced by the South as a symbol of segregation and a means to intimidate those who supported civil rights. Again - it symbolized a wrong-headedness, an absurd level of stubborness, and just all around injustice that the South stood for at the time. It represents everything awful during that time period - George Wallace, slain Mississippi civil rights workers and leaders, the Klan, incidents in Little Rock, Oxford, and at the University of Alabama, etc...

In fact, it played more of an outsized role during that period than it did during the civil war, when it was not even the official flag of the confederacy. One would think the South would be glad to disown it considering the causes that flag has been involved in and the embarrassments surrounding it.