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I really think that in the long-run the liberals will regret the way they attained victory in the gay marriage debate. The truth of the matter (much to my disappointment) was that public attitudes would eventually change, and the public would condone homosexuality and--more generally--gay marriage. However, social liberals were very impatient with this change, and felt that "the ends justified the means." To that end, they instructed the Democratic establishment politicians (from Obama on down) to deliberately lie to the people and say that they were opposed to gay marriage (back when the majority of Americans were opposed to it). Then, at almost precisely the exact moment a majority of people supported gay marriage, the entire Democratic establishment "evolved" and claimed to have had a genuine change of heart on the issue. In the meantime, Obama & company packed the judiciary with socially liberal judges who overturned voter-approved bans on gay marriage; this had the effect of shifting public opinion in favor of gay marriage at a far faster rate than would otherwise have happened.
If any liberal thinks that this lesson is lost on establishment Republicans, he or she is sorely mistaken. There is no excuse for this sickening deception (regardless of how you feel on any issue), but you can expect clever Republican politicians to employ similar tactics in the future. Personally, I predict that some socially conservative Republicans--in an attempt to woo women voters in blue and purple states--will pretend to be a lot more centrist on the issue of abortion than they actually are. As a matter of fact, we saw this in last year's CO Senate race when Cory Gardner walked back his previous support of a personhood amendment. (This reminded me so much of how candidate Obama claimed to support traditional marriage and retracted a 1996 statement in support of gay marriage.) Democrats should get ready for a much larger scale deception on the part of social conservatives, now that the liberals managed to win the gay marriage debate in the most underhanded and dishonest way possible. And after the conservatives have lied and packed the judiciary with staunch right-wing judges, I will feel zero sympathy for the liberal Democrats because it was their idol--Barack Obama--who showed us all how to deceive the voters.
Last edited by Dole-McCain Republican; 06-27-2015 at 10:04 PM..
I really think that in the long-run the liberals will regret the way they attained victory in the gay marriage debate. The truth of the matter (much to my disappointment) was that public attitudes would eventually change, and the public would condone homosexuality and--more generally--gay marriage. However, social liberals were very impatient with this change, and felt that "the ends justified the means." To that end, they instructed the Democratic establishment politicians (from Obama on down) to deliberately lie to the people and say that they were opposed to gay marriage (back when the majority of Americans were opposed to it). Then, at almost precisely the exact moment a majority of people supported gay marriage, the entire Democratic establishment "evolved" and claimed to have had a genuine change of heart on the issue. In the meantime, Obama & company packed the judiciary with socially liberal judges who overturned voter-approved bans on gay marriage; this had the effect of shifting public opinion in favor of gay marriage at a far faster rate than would otherwise have happened.
If any liberal thinks that this lesson is lost on establishment Republicans, he or she is sorely mistaken. There is no excuse for this sickening deception (regardless of how you feel on any issue), but you can expect clever Republican politicians to employ similar tactics in the future. Personally, I predict that some socially conservative Republicans--in an attempt to woo women voters in blue and purple states--will pretend to be a lot more centrist on the issue of abortion than they actually are. As a matter of fact, we saw this in last year's CO Senate race when Cory Gardner walked back his previous support of a personhood amendment. (This reminded me so much of how candidate Obama claimed to support traditional marriage and retracted a 1996 statement in support of gay marriage). Democrats should get ready for this large scale deception on the part of social conservatives, now that the liberals managed to win the gay marriage debate in the most underhanded and dishonest way possible.
No, I don't think so. Why would anyone regret campaigning for equal rights. And how was it underhanded. I have no statistics but I would guess that no one 30 and under cares about who marries who. It's the older generation who cares.
Times are changing. A new generation is taking over. Deal with it."
Since times were changing, and a new generation was taking over, why was it necessary for the Democrats to lie to the people back in 2008 in order to get elected? I am guessing that your moral standards are so low that you condone lying, which pretty much tells me what type of human being you are.
"No, I don't think so. Why would anyone regret campaigning for equal rights. And how was it underhanded. I have no statistics but I would guess that no one 30 and under cares about who marries who. It's the older generation who cares."
It was underhanded because Obama repeatedly said when campaigning for president that marriage was between one man and one woman, and then said he "evolved" when the majority of the public was in support of the issue (despite the fact that David Axelrod recently admitted that Obama blatantly lied about his position while campaigning, and despite the fact that Obama said in 1996 that he supported gay marriage).
If the social liberals won but were honest with the American people, I would still be upset over the ruling. However, I am far more upset over the fact that the homosexuals and their allies used deception to get what they wanted. This type of deception wasn't even necessary, since (as you pointed out), the younger generation condones homosexuality; had the Democrats been honest about their position on gay marriage, all that would have happened was that gay marriage would have been legalized around 2025.
"No, I don't think so. Why would anyone regret campaigning for equal rights. And how was it underhanded. I have no statistics but I would guess that no one 30 and under cares about who marries who. It's the older generation who cares."
It was underhanded because Obama repeatedly said when campaigning for president that marriage was between one man and one woman, and then said he "evolved" when the majority of the public was in support of the issue (despite the fact that David Axelrod recently admitted that Obama blatantly lied about his position while campaigning, and despite the fact that Obama said in 1996 that he supported gay marriage).
If the social liberals won but were honest with the American people, I would still be upset over the ruling. However, I am far more upset over the fact that the homosexuals and their allies used deception to get what they wanted. This type of deception wasn't even necessary, since (as you pointed out), the younger generation condones homosexuality; had the Democrats been honest about their position on gay marriage, all that would have happened would that it would have been legalized around 2025.
Get over it. Now we can move on to more important matters this country faces.
"Get over it. Now we can move on to more important matters this country faces."
I agree that there are far more important issues than gay marriage and homosexuality; that is not even the point of this thread. The big issue here is that it is inexcusable for any politician to brazenly lie to the people just so some social or political objective can be achieved (even an objective that you find just and noble). As I alluded to earlier, conservatives could use the same line of thinking that Obama & company did, and claim to be moderate on the issue of abortion in order to close the gender gap; once in office, however, they could appoint far-right judges who would make it extremely difficult for women to get abortions. How would you feel if that happened? I bet you would be extremely upset, especially since deception would have been employed to attain such an outcome.
Then, at almost precisely the exact moment a majority of people supported gay marriage, the entire Democratic establishment "evolved" and claimed to have had a genuine change of heart on the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dole-McCain Republican
It was underhanded because Obama repeatedly said when campaigning for president that marriage was between one man and one woman, and then said he "evolved" when the majority of the public was in support of the issue
I don't get your point?
If, by your own admission, the majority of the public is in support of SSM, where's the problem? The law is then supported by the majority, you said so yourself.
That more and more people are willing (and more and more will continue to, as years go by) to re-examine their thinking and realize they were wrong before?
Admitting one was mistaken takes courage and intelligence more often than not. Good for them
"Get over it. Now we can move on to more important matters this country faces."
I agree that there are far more important issues than gay marriage and homosexuality; that is not even the point of this thread. The big issue here is that it is inexcusable for any politician to brazenly lie to the people just so some social or political objective can be achieved (even an objective that you find just and noble). As I alluded to earlier, conservatives could use the same line of thinking that Obama & company did, and claim to be moderate on the issue of abortion in order to close the gender gap; once in office, however, they could appoint far-right judges who would make it extremely difficult for women to get abortions. How would you feel if that happened? I bet you would be extremely upset, especially since deception would have been employed to attain such an outcome.
All politicians lie. Haven't you figured that out yet. But this isn't on obama, this is the supreme court's ruling.
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