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Hoplophobes are incapable of reasoning, they are also incapable of telling the truth.
Most of them are so totally ignorant on the subject they don't know what the truth is and have no idea how to even recognize it. What's worse is they won't even attempt to be educated on the topic because they don't care about the truth, they want guns banned - period, facts that don't support that position don't matter to them.
Most of them are so totally ignorant on the subject they don't know what the truth is and have no idea how to even recognize it. What's worse is they won't even attempt to be educated on the topic because they don't care about the truth, they want guns banned - period, facts that don't support that position don't matter to them.
Yep, they want nothing more to limit the civil rights of millions of Americans by pushing a gun control agenda that will cost billions of dollars and has been proven to not work when tried in the past. Their zealotry knows no reason, they fear what they don't understand and cannot stop their insatiable desire to control the lives of everyone around them.
I always ask them to actually describe why certain guns are more dangerious than others and why certain features should be banned, for some reason they are always at a loss for words. Then I ask them to provide examples of how the legislation they want passed affected crime in states states that have already enacted that specific legislation. More crickets.
The simple fact is gun control has been proven to be a complete failure, I just wish people would stop doubling down on that failure at my expense.
I would read it and then comment on the source itself. But
republicans don't even read sources from certain groups (because their corporate
leaders say those sources lie.)
Well I don't know about "most" Republicans, but that is not true for me. In fact, I probably read more Liberal sources and watch more Liberal news than I do Conservative sources. I watch MSNBC regularly and hardly ever watch FOX. I don't think there's any point in watching and reading only viewpoints that I agree with. "Know your enemy" and all that. So that you know I'm not just blowing smoke, I started the thread below concerning this very issue months ago.....
So when you blindly trust only one side without verifying it or exposing yourself to other viewpoints, you make yourself a prime target for manipulation. So when I say Mother Jones, Thinkprogress, etc, are nothing but shills for the other side, it's because I know this for a fact, because I read those sources quite often.
Quote:
Every source from Fox news to Mother Jones will exaggerate, spin, and
withhold information to make their position look good. The Key is to take in
both sides points and figure out the truth for yourself.
I agree. The fact is, the sites you name not only spin and exaggerate, they'll outright lie, and thus they aren't even worthy of being given the initial benefit of the doubt. This is especially true when they talk and write about the gun issue.
So you are telling me the gun manufacturers got what they wanted by spooking people into believing that their guns were going to be taken away by Obama, man, people are too easy.
Let's not even pretend that if Obama had the choice and there would be no political ramifications for his party, he wouldn't ban guns. He'd ban them in a heartbeat.
Thankfully, the wants of the uneducated masses doesn't determin our civil rights.
The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved.
Liberals operate from fear, and they’ve got an entire routine about people supposedly shooting family members and not being able to stop criminals, But people who want to take away your rights under the pretense of safety and security are really just laying the groundwork for tyranny.
In the end, the only form of gun control that works is taking aim before pulling the trigger.
10 things non-gun people should know about CCW holders.
1. We don’t carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don’t walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don’t get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don’t hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first.
2. We don’t think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren’t hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don’t take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness. We don’t believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extrordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided.
3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or “rage” incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don’t pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want.
4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other secuity measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.
5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on its own.
6. We do not believe in the concept of “accidental discharges”. There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun “going off” was the result of negligence on somebody’s part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America.
7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it’s very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private security. Please don’t generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like “there’s a guy running around in the store with a gun” or even simply “I saw a man with a gun in the store” could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the incident.
8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any time. Criminals do not observe “gun free zones”. If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we think a location is.
9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.
10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don’t believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe “gun free zones”. Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims.
And the American majority that does not own guns wants to ban assault weapons
because that's the weapon most mass murderers use (I guess these insane people
see assault weapons being used in movies to kill large numbers of people and
then want to use those weapons in real life.)
Like I told you in my last post, the fact that a certain firearm might be used disproportionately in crime means nothing. The Supreme Court explicitly rejected that argument when DC attorneys used it to try and defend their ban on handgun ownership. The only thing that matters is that the weapon is also common among law-abiding citizens, and what you call "assault weapons".... are.
Data indicates that crime in the United States started to decline in 1992. Donohue and Levitt suggest that the absence of unwanted children, following legalization in 1973, led to a reduction in crime 18 years later, starting in 1992 and dropping sharply in 1995. These would have been the peak crime-committing years of the unborn children.
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Originally Posted by shooting4life
Seems we have a strong correlation between the amount of concealed carry permits being issued and the murder rate.
and btw, crime rate falling since 1992. If you set your data back that far. . .your correlation between concealed carry and crime evaporates.
I mean seriously. . . you come up with concealed carry, you introduce it after crime rates are falling and then you claim that concealed carry was what did it. Way to take credit
Seems we have a strong correlation between the amount of concealed carry permits being issued and the murder rate. Some states have roughly 10% of their population with a concealed carry permit. An interesting take away is the growth in women permit holders.
Firearm ownership is more popular than ever and has been accepted as main stream. Even watching tv you see going to the gun range as normal acceptable behavior. Gun owners are winning!
The number of concealed carry handgun permits has skyrocketed since President Obama was first elected, while murder rates have fallen, according to a new report set to be released Wednesday.
Since 2007, the number of concealed handgun permits has soared from 4.6 million to over 12.8 million, according to the report from the Crime Prevention Research Center.
The number of people that carry concealed handguns is likely even higher, since permits are not required in seven states.
More women are getting permits than men, the report stated. Since 2007, permits for women have increased by 270 percent and for men by 156 percent.
At the same time, murder rates have fallen from 5.6 to 4.2 per 100,000, about a 25 percent drop. Overall violent crime also fell by 25 percent, according to the report. https://www.firearmspolicy.org/news/...s-soar-report/
The murder rate has been falling since the 90s genius.
also - another bad data thing is that often these concealed carry people often link lack of concealed carry laws and violent cities (Chicago for instance). Yet . .the fact of the matter is that these cities are having issues with crime and thus restrict gun use.
Restricted gun use programs is evidence of a city fighting crime. The idea it causes crime is akin to polling people at the oncologist and then saying oncologist cause cancer.
It's certainly one correlation and I personally would argue that it has overall aided the reduction in crime rates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago
and btw, crime rate falling since 1992. If you set your data back that far. . .your correlation between concealed carry and crime evaporates.
I mean seriously. . . you come up with concealed carry, you introduce it after crime rates are falling and then you claim that concealed carry was what did it. Way to take credit
Showing that across the years you're discussing the ability to concealed carry was also increasing. You cannot disconnect the two possible causes, since we do not have enough data to confirm or deny either theory. Yes fewer people in the peak crime ages of 18-25 may lead to a reduction in crime, more people who are concealed carrying may also lead to a reduction in crime by deterring criminals from attempting crimes.
One item we can state however is that increasing numbers of people concealed carrying has not led to a net overall increase in crimes all factors included.
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