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Old 08-24-2015, 08:00 PM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,931,574 times
Reputation: 3461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
The Non Aggression Principle. Unless the slavery is voluntarily agreed upon between all parties, it is verboten.
And you own yourself.
Yes, thanks for answering. The slaves in the United States did not voluntarily agree to be slaves. I asked the question following this post & reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Yes but don't worry, the free market will figure things out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
If y'all would leave it alone it would. Slavery and Jim Crow laws were gross violations of the right of association, so are protective classes.
I was interested in how slavery would have been ended by Libertarian type reform? How could the owner be forced to give up his ownership of another human being? If slavery was profitable (& it was) how would free market fundamentals suggest ending? Many paradoxical questions came to mind. I also didn't understand the reference to slavery being a gross violation of the right of association.
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,302 posts, read 2,357,667 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Human nature creates slavery. Human nature ends slavery. Human nature is not fixed in stone, we evolve, we are free, we choose, we create, we destroy, we adapt, we dance, we change, we keep moving & so on.
I completely agree.
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,302 posts, read 2,357,667 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Yes, thanks for answering. The slaves in the United States did not voluntarily agree to be slaves. I asked the question following this post & reply:

I was interested in how slavery would have been ended by Libertarian type reform? How could the owner be forced to give up his ownership of another human being? If slavery was profitable (& it was) how would free market fundamentals suggest ending? Many paradoxical questions came to mind. I also didn't understand the reference to slavery being a gross violation of the right of association.
Since libertarians believe in self-ownership (I could nitpick and say generally they do), people would just stop recognizing their ownership of other people. No force would be needed. As far as profit is concerned, slavery was actually very inefficient and costly. New inventions, as mentioned earlier, would prove to be more efficient and productive. There wouldn't be much incentive to keep slaves who cost you more and produce less.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,902,520 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
How would slavery have ended, Libertarian fashioned?
It would have never started.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:57 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,931,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
Since libertarians believe in self-ownership (I could nitpick and say generally they do), people would just stop recognizing their ownership of other people. No force would be needed. As far as profit is concerned, slavery was actually very inefficient and costly. New inventions, as mentioned earlier, would prove to be more efficient and productive. There wouldn't be much incentive to keep slaves who cost you more and produce less.
Does rational persuasion violate the non aggression principle? How could people who were owned by other people rationally persuade the people who owned them they were being irrational? How would that work?
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:13 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,931,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
It would have never started.
The absence of slavery means the question of ending it doesn't need to be asked.

It never made sense for people to own other people, it was never a rational practice. There are libertarians in the present day who defend, rationalize, &/or justify slavery, they seemed to be imprisoned by their ideology, their foolish absolutist consistency is the hobgoblin.

All people evolve, even Libertarians.

Last edited by ChiGeekGuest; 08-25-2015 at 05:23 AM..
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,756,723 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
How would slavery have ended, Libertarian fashioned?
Slavery ended all over the civilized world without a war. Moral shifts of Society do not happen rapidly, but that shift was well underway and would have been completed without a war.

The deaths of 800,000 Americans was totally unnecessary.
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,756,723 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
What about the owning people as property aspect? Property rights are very important to Libertarians, aren't they?
Libertarians recognize all people as having individual rights. Not just the powerful. So Libertarians oppose slavery even more than Dems and Reps.
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,756,723 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Yes, thanks for answering. The slaves in the United States did not voluntarily agree to be slaves. I asked the question following this post & reply:





I was interested in how slavery would have been ended by Libertarian type reform? How could the owner be forced to give up his ownership of another human being? If slavery was profitable (& it was) how would free market fundamentals suggest ending? Many paradoxical questions came to mind. I also didn't understand the reference to slavery being a gross violation of the right of association.
Mkpunk and Whogo were giving you sarcastic replies. Ignore them.

It really is quite simple. Libertarians do not believe in slavery. Quite clearly, they believe all people own themselves and have individual rights. In fact, that is one of the cornerstones of the libertarian philosophy.
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,756,723 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
It never made sense for people to own other people, it was never a rational practice. There are libertarians in the present day who defend, rationalize, &/or justify slavery, they seemed to be imprisoned by their ideology, their foolish absolutist consistency is the hobgoblin.
Then I would say they are not libertarians at all. Who are these people?
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