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I don't think a group of cells without a nervous system counts as human being and if by some chance another person was completely dependent on your body, I mean everything, without your permission, would you not want the option of stopping it.
I don't even know why I'm replying to you. You've been the most nonsensical poster in this topic and are the exact kind of person I'm talking about who prevents abortion debates from rising above self-righteous whining.
An unborn baby does have a central nervous system! They have everything a human being needs other than a more convenient location.
Then don't reply to me if I am so non sensica, though I have to say that non-sensical is attempting to claim that the offspring of two human parents is not human? How is that even possible?? Is it a dog? A cat? No, it's a human being as the very sensical and scientifically proven Law of Biogenesis states! I guess if posting scientific fact and logic make me a self-rightetous, non-sensical whiner, oh well, at least I speak the truth!
Clearly abortion is a very divisive and emotionally charged issue and within that debate, we hear people say "don't force your morality on me." That is exactly what you are doing if you expect someone to have to partake in an abortion. If a doctor doesn't believe in abortion, we shouldn't force him to do abortions. If a pharmacist doesn't believe in abortion, why should he/she be forced to dispense an abortifacient. You are accusing a prolife pharmacist of forcing morality by simply passing onto another pharmacist, yet you want to force your morality onto them by making them partake in an activity that they don't believe in.
Again, the woman has a million other pharmacists to go to, take your business else where just as you would in any other business you don't like. Let businesses decide for themselves. If they lose business as a result, their loss!
For those that don't know or believe that the pill can act as an abortifacient:
The Physician's Desk Reference is the most frequently used reference book by physicians in America. The PDR, as it's often called, lists and explains the effects, benefits, and risks of every medical product that can be legally prescribed. The Food and Drug Administration requires that each manufacturer provide accurate information on its products, based on scientific research and laboratory tests. According [/SIZE]to multiple references throughout The Physician's Desk Reference, which articulate the research findings of all the birth control pill manufacturers, there are not one but three mechanisms of birth control pills:
1. inhibiting ovulation (the primary mechanism),
2. thickening the cervical mucus, thereby making it more difficult for sperm to travel to the egg, and
3. thinning and shriveling the lining of the uterus to the point that it is unable or less able to facilitate the implantation of the newly fertilized egg.
The first two mechanisms are contraceptive. The third is abortive.
When a woman taking the Pill discovers she is pregnant, it means that all three of these mechanisms have failed. The third mechanism sometimes fails in its role as backup, just as the first and second mechanisms sometimes fail. Each and every time the third mechanism succeeds, however, it causes an abortion.
By your definition, your god is clearly the biggest abortionist in business. A high percentage of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) within the first few months. If god's down with abortion, why are you making such a fuss over it? Just go with god's will and you can't go wrong.
An unborn baby does have a central nervous system! They have everything a human being needs other than a more convenient location.
Then don't reply to me if I am so non sensica, though I have to say that non-sensical is attempting to claim that the offspring of two human parents is not human? How is that even possible?? Is it a dog? A cat? No, it's a human being as the very sensical and scientifically proven Law of Biogenesis states! I guess if posting scientific fact and logic make me a self-rightetous, non-sensical whiner, oh well, at least I speak the truth!
In the first stages of pregnancy the fetus is little more than a clump of cells and has no nervous system.
Okay, if the fetus has everything it needs, but the unfortunate location than once it has been removed let's see how well it does outside the womb.
I can agree with restricting abortion at the point where a fetus could survive outside the womb without medical assistance (obviously I'm not against a baby receiving medical assistance if it has been born prematurely). But up until that point it can only survive on its mother's body.
The problem with this debate is that it always deteriorates into dogma. There is no intelligent, logical rhetoric that can stand up to dogma. Once the argument leaves the realm of proven fact and moves into the realm of religious or personal belief, the argument is over.
It becomes especially virulent when those whose stance is based on their personal belief in a Creator refuse to allow for the fact that not all believe in their daddy in the sky, nor do all believe that the Christian bible is the literal word of an omnipotent being--thus the use of the bible as a weapon in this argument is moot.
Don't believe in abortion? Lovely. You have every right in the world to feel that way. It is an extremely difficult and personal decision. My advice to you is--don't have one.
But don't presume to be the conscience of others. It is not your place to make that very personal decision for anyone else but yourself.
In the first stages of pregnancy the fetus is little more than a clump of cells and has no nervous system.
The brain, spinal cord, and heart develop within the first 3 weeks.
Quote:
Okay, if the fetus has everything it needs, but the unfortunate location than once it has been removed let's see how well it does outside the womb.
Let's see how well a 1 day old baby does without any help outside the womb. Or a 1 month old. Or even a 1 year old.
If the ability to live without assistance is the determining factor, we should be able to murder children up to, and probably beyond, birth + 2 years. And then again at the end of a person's life, right?
Quote:
I can agree with restricting abortion at the point where a fetus could survive outside the womb without medical assistance (obviously I'm not against a baby receiving medical assistance if it has been born prematurely). But up until that point it can only survive on its mother's body.
I've asked this several times in both of the recent abortion threads...if viability, with medical assistance, is the determining factor, what happens when medical science pushes back the timeframe? What if we can start saving babies at 20 weeks? 16? 12? What if it's possible to completely grow a baby from fertilization to birth inside an artificial womb? Will you then adjust your views on abortion? Or is this "viability" argument just a way for you to rationalize what you're doing, giving some arbitrary rule in an attempt to justify what is still infanticide, whether it's a 22 week old baby or 19 week old baby?
The problem with this debate is that it always deteriorates into dogma. There is no intelligent, logical rhetoric that can stand up to dogma. Once the argument leaves the realm of proven fact and moves into the realm of religious or personal belief, the argument is over.
It becomes especially virulent when those whose stance is based on their personal belief in a Creator refuse to allow for the fact that not all believe in their daddy in the sky, nor do all believe that the Christian bible is the literal word of an omnipotent being--thus the use of the bible as a weapon in this argument is moot.
Don't believe in abortion? Lovely. You have every right in the world to feel that way. It is an extremely difficult and personal decision. My advice to you is--don't have one.
But don't presume to be the conscience of others. It is not your place to make that very personal decision for anyone else but yourself.
One doesn't have to be overly religious to be against murder.
Does the "if you don't like it, don't do it" argument work for other issues, also? Don't like guns? Don't own one. Don't like drugs? Don't do them. Don't like illegal immigration? Don't immigrate illegally. Don't like rape? Don't rape anyone. Hm, well, we'll have to figure out where it works, later.
And I'm perfectly happy to let you do whatever you want with your own body....anything that only affects you is, indeed, a personal decision and I could not care less what you do. It's when you start murdering the innocent unborn that I'm going to get my boxers in a bunch.
By your definition, your god is clearly the biggest abortionist in business. A high percentage of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) within the first few months. If god's down with abortion, why are you making such a fuss over it? Just go with god's will and you can't go wrong.
Right?
At what point did I say anthing about "my God?"
How do you even know that I am a person of faith? Don't make assumptions as my belief in the santictity of human life has nothing to do with any God.
Moreover, there is a HUGE difference between a woman's body naturally miscarrying a pregnancy and a woman forcibly yanking her unborn baby out with a vacuum.
The problem with this debate is that it always deteriorates into dogma. There is no intelligent, logical rhetoric that can stand up to dogma. Once the argument leaves the realm of proven fact and moves into the realm of religious or personal belief, the argument is over.
It becomes especially virulent when those whose stance is based on their personal belief in a Creator refuse to allow for the fact that not all believe in their daddy in the sky, nor do all believe that the Christian bible is the literal word of an omnipotent being--thus the use of the bible as a weapon in this argument is moot.
Don't believe in abortion? Lovely. You have every right in the world to feel that way. It is an extremely difficult and personal decision. My advice to you is--don't have one.
But don't presume to be the conscience of others. It is not your place to make that very personal decision for anyone else but yourself.
How is stating that an unborn baby is a human life a religious dogma? That is scientific fact.
The brain, spinal cord, and heart develop within the first 3 weeks.
No, they don't. You insult the complexity of the process. No work at all is done on the central nervous system during the first three weeks of gestation. There is a differentiated group of cells that will eventually become a heart, but it's where a mouth will eventually be, and it has no circulatory function at all. At three weeks, you are still talking about an embryo, not a fetus. A healthy embryo at three weeks will be between a quarter and a third of an inch across, and it is basically an undifferentiated tube all curled up like a roly-poly bug. It still has gill arches and a tail structure, as do all vertebrate embryos at a similar stage of development. There are no arms, no legs, and no face.
One doesn't have to be overly religious to be against murder.
No, but it certainly helps if you want to end up taking a firm stand against other people's abortions. The principal bases upon which some people come to an anti-abortion position are religious dogma, disinformation, and unfiltered emotion. There is no accompanying and convincing secular argument in favor of the anti-abortion position. If there were, no one would be pro-choice. No pro-choice person sanctions actual murder.
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