Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm for increasing legal immigration and securing the border to keep out terrorists and gangsters. I like immigration in the abstract, because I don't think too highly of most of the people who are already here. I think we can use some fresh blood.
Increase legal immigration while we have 23 million Americans out of work? Are you joking? If you don't like Americans then I suggest you move to the country of your choice.
We already have a large number of unemployed Americans that have given up. Everyone brings up systems like Denmark, but they have very controlled immigration because they realize the impact immigration has to wages.
Denmark signed an agreement to let anyone from Europe live and work in Denmark. That's hardly "very controlled."
Furthermore their non-EU migrant program is one of the most open in Europe. Denmark is one of the few countries in Europe that an American can easily move to and get a job. Try moving to Belgium or Switzerland -- the rules are far more difficult.
Quote:
Then, there are the X number of guest worker programs. It's like, why are we not training or paying well enough that our people are doing these jobs since we have so many unemployed citizens.
well, this part is largely accurate. Guest worker programs , especially in the United States, give too much control to employers to suppress wages. Many of these schemes allow companies to effectively deport guest workers if they ask for a raise, and simultaneously fail to provide guest workers with an avenue towards citizenship.
Most developed countries are very, very strict about the wage requirements for non-immigrant work visas. The United States, on the other hand, basically puts companies on the "honor system," with no real penalties for noncompliance.
If , for instance, the United States set a salary floor on work visas for twice the median household income of a region (ex: $180,000/yr for DC, $140,000/yr for Boston, $90,000/yr for Jackson Mississippi), it would go a long way towards ending guest worker abuses, and ensure that the purpose was to attract uniquely-skilled workers rather than low-wage workers.
Quote:
And, I'm tired of hearing "If you deport the illegals, big macs will be a billion dollars and the economy will collapse" <- kool-aid.
This is the first you've mentioned of illegals.
But in any case the conservative argument against deportation is "cost of goods will rise / farmers will go out of business / etc"
The liberal opposition to deporting illegal immigrants is "it violates their human rights."
I think they're both B.S., or at least, inconsequential.
why should we cut back on the guest worker programs?
because they artificially depress wages
Quote:
are you willing to go out to the farms and pick lettuce in the summer?
yes, for $1,000/hr
Quote:
are you willing to go work in the housekeeping department of a hotel and clean rooms, including bathrooms?
yes, for $800 /hr
Of course, my time is expensive. You probably couldn't afford me. But the point is that there are no jobs that Americans are unwilling to do. there are, however, many many jobs that americans aren't willing to do for the crap wages being offered.
The question is : Why should businesses be allowed to bypass the domestic labor market?
" Original European colonists ". Lovely people. He he he... Seriously though , I admire your forefathers . They had the ballz to take what they wanted. Very dominant group .
They built America, not taken it. It was a wilderness in the stone age open for conquest and development. Now 'immigrants' want to be given want white Americans created.
Quote:
Having said that , you have no right to tell a hard working LEGAL immigrant what to do. If someone wants to do well in life , works hard , is law abiding , a decent human being , he/she should be welcomed with open arms.
I and every other American have ever right to say who can and can't be a legal immigrant. I say we don't need any more immigration from Europe and we never need any from muslim Africa and the middle east and asia, but that's mostly all we're getting since 1965 thanks to white culture busting progressives.
They built America, not taken it. It was a wilderness in the stone age open for conquest and development. Now 'immigrants' want to be given want white Americans created.
as a descendant of early american colonists
i agree that our ancestors were not "immigrants"
but to suggest america was a "wilderness" that was "open for conquest and development" is just ignorant and screwed up. There were an awful lot of people living here when my ancestors arrived.
We are ALREADY swamped by the illegals right now. The anchor babies would have their citizenship nullified since they were born from an illegal parent and birthright citizenship form an illegal would be repealed just like any previous amnesty laws. If you are an anchor baby, you will not be able to sponsor anyone AND will be deported immediately. The only people who are able to sponsor are who came here LEGALLY.
I still think it's a bad idea. We'll have to agree to disagree.
i have worked with people in the hotel business from around the world, singapore, south africa, jamaica, serbia, among others, and i found them to be harder working than most of the americans i worked with, as well as being friendlier.
as for singapore producing more food with less water, we are in fact also using that technology today in this country, its called hydroponics. we also have another technology that is newer called airponics. it uses even less water than hydroponics.
but getting back to the OP, this country is going to need those foreign born people since the population growth in this country is slowing, and we will need the tax revenue to fund all the government programs that have been created, that no one wants to get rid of.
as for the horror stories, they can be found in all areas of the country, and most of them are blown out of proportion by the media looking to sensationalize the "plight" of foreign workers.
We are using hydroponics and aiponics. Tomatoes for example, can be grown this way. But, in the US it is more common to grow them in the ground because it's cheaper for framers to do it this way and keep their cheap Mexican labor. So this program it's hindering progression.
So basically, that person can rent a 1 bedroom for ~1/2 of their salary.
If you live in San Jose, and you work at a hotel for minimum wage for $9/hour for 40 hours a week, for 4 weeks a month you would have $1440. You didn't even COVER rent. So of course, you dislike your employer and have an attitude problem!
We'd be swamped within just a couple of years. And that's like waving a red flag in front of a bull in terms of illegal immigration; all the family needs is one amnestied "anchor" and it's open season.
Terrible idea.
I think a US solider who marries a foreign woman should be able to sponsor her and her children or dependents (like really old grandma that needs a care taker).
I'm not sure about sponsoring independent adults: brothers, sisters, or parents.
I mean, a man sponsoring his wife, I believe he can support her. But, one man cannot sponsor a brother, sister, and 2 parents. And even if he could, that man's actions have displaces 4 US workers?
It's not always about the immigrant being on government programs. It's also about the person that would have gotten the job had they "been there"
They built America, not taken it. It was a wilderness in the stone age open for conquest and development. Now 'immigrants' want to be given want white Americans created.
I and every other American have ever right to say who can and can't be a legal immigrant. I say we don't need any more immigration from Europe and we never need any from muslim Africa and the middle east and asia, but that's mostly all we're getting since 1965 thanks to white culture busting progressives.
Wow , you really are one arrogant dude ( or dudette.. he he he ). I though we could have a rational discussion on this one but I didn't realize I was dealing with a petulant 13 year old. I actually complemented your ancestors and your heritage. I agree with you , they had a big ( but not the only ) role in building this country up from nothing and by and large have done a great job. I admire their guts , intelligence , cunning and industrious nature.
On the topic of Legal immigration , you sir have absolutely no right to tell anyone not to work for a better life and make their future in this nation. This country has been built on the backs of such people and not just the european ones.
If you want to take a moral standpoint against Illegal Immigration , I am all for it. Leave Legal immigration alone.
Your problem is that you are too hung up on this European/white thing. Let it go. Use something worthwhile to prop up your self esteem.
I think a US solider who marries a foreign woman should be able to sponsor her and her children or dependents (like really old grandma that needs a care taker).
I'm not sure about sponsoring independent adults: brothers, sisters, or parents.
I mean, a man sponsoring his wife, I believe he can support her. But, one man cannot sponsor a brother, sister, and 2 parents. And even if he could, that man's actions have displaces 4 US workers?
It's not always about the immigrant being on government programs. It's also about the person that would have gotten the job had they "been there"
In a previous post, I stated that I do not support family-based immigration except for spouses & minor children (adopted or otherwise) of US citizens. This would include minor stepchildren as far as I'm concerned, but nobody else. Not even grandma.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
