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Old 02-04-2016, 03:11 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,752,932 times
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To the contrary, humans have come up with the police so that civilians no longer feel the need to carry weapons or the wish do take justice into their own hands.
In other words, the imbalance is deliberate. The military and police need guns, the rest don't.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,235,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeminoleTom View Post
This is my first time at the political forum so please bear with me. I'm asking this question to learn because as of now ive lived a shelter life when it comes to happenings around the globe.


One thing I'm interested in is I always hear conservatives say "vote for us-- keep your freedoms... otherwise we will end up like Western Europe". I then go read an article or look at the news on line and it would appear most people from England, France, Spain, Germany, etc are "free". They go to work, school, have families-- doesn't seem much different than what we do here in the states. So what freedoms do Americans have that folks in those other countries don't? I know guns is one-- but they still hunt in England? So can someone please help me understand? I need specifics....

Finally, I know there is A LOT of fear mongering out there. The quote above may just be that-- I don't know. Liberals are guilty at that as well....

Thanks
I lived in Germany for 3 years, and yes, Germans (as are other Europeans) are free. They get up in the morning, go to work, drive home, eat, watch TV, go to restaurants, go to school, take vacations, etc. It's honestly a similar life to what Americans have.

There are differences of course. College was "free" (paid for via taxes), but once you received your degree, you were pretty much set on a career path and couldn't go back to school and get a new degree/choose a new career path.

I believe health care was free (paid for via taxes, like Canada) as well.

Things I noted: They got more vacation, there was very little poverty, but there wasn't a "super wealthy" class either (most Germans were living what we'd call middle to upper middle class lives), the city I lived in was super safe with low crime, there weren't reports of shootings on the news, the country was very clean, Germans were very much alike in their attitudes/opinions, they didn't mind conformity, and there were a fair number of odd laws, like you couldn't mow your lawn on Sunday morning, stores closed at noon on Saturdays except for the 1st Saturday of the month, serious driver's education required.

Oh, and while they build a super sturdy house, they seem incapable of building an functional bathroom or kitchen! USA wins on kitchens and bathrooms

I liked living in Europe overall and would live there again.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:20 PM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,729,968 times
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Default Covering hair...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Yes, it also depends on what one is used to, we have mentioned that already.
There is a slight difference, though. Covering one's hair is unnatural, running around unarmed is not unnatural. There is also a sexist element with covering one's hair, while all citizens are treated the same with regard to gun laws, regardless of sex.
Reminds me what Malala said (though more about our problems here rather than abroad), "I believe it's a woman's right to decide what she wants to wear and if a woman can go to the beach and wear nothing, then why can't she also wear everything?"
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:26 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,503,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
To the contrary, humans have come up with the police so that civilians no longer feel the need to carry weapons or the wish do take justice into their own hands.
In other words, the imbalance is deliberate. The military and police need guns, the rest don't.

No, the police are there to keep those in power in power and those who are ruled, ruled. Civilization and its police and military forces didn't originate to keep people safe and free from violence, but to raise the few over the many. That is why we have the second amendment, because our founders recognized that the police/military oppressed people in Europe. But our founders weren't willing to go so far as to abolish the police or military entirely.


In the United States it's quite clear what the police are for: the SCOTUS has ruled repeatedly since the early 19th century that police have no duty to protect individuals. The police are there to serve the state.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:29 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,503,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I highly recommend you do yourself a favor and read less right-wing opinion pieces and more general text book history, because we already touched upon the folly of judging past leaders, like our slave-owning founding fathers, in light of today's more progressive social development and understanding.

Also, just like like Republicans today are not defined by the same agenda as the Republicans of the Lincoln era, you demonstrate a true lack of historical appreciation and/or comprehension when you can't make these sorts of distinctions. Just saying...
The progressives were denounced in their own day by conservatives (who would be called libertarian today), religious leaders and those influenced by them (i.e., G.K. Chesterton). It is not me who lacks historical appreciation or understanding. You have chosen to label yourself a "progressive" without understanding the history of that label.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:30 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,752,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Reminds me what Malala said (though more about our problems here rather than abroad), "I believe it's a woman's right to decide what she wants to wear and if a woman can go to the beach and wear nothing, then why can't she also wear everything?"
She CAN wear everything, but voluntarily, which is not the case in certain countries.

There is also a difference between forcing someone to do something and not allowing someone to do something.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,263 posts, read 23,746,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Yes, unlike here where you can get away with calling our POTUS a foreign-born Muslim, communist, terrorist and not only get away with it but get others to cheer you on at Tea Parties!

You can also burn the American flag in this country, which some people also view as a bit too much freedom, but I for one am proud to be an American where this sort of freedom is protected by our Constitution like none other!
Regardless of what I think of people who burn the American flag, it is their right, and it is one that I will and have defended.

Being silenced by government is never a good road to go down.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:35 PM
 
529 posts, read 370,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
To the contrary, humans have come up with the police so that civilians no longer feel the need to carry weapons or the wish do take justice into their own hands.
In other words, the imbalance is deliberate. The military and police need guns, the rest don't.

The New York Sheriff's Office was founded in 1626, and the Albany County Sheriff's Department in the 1660s. In the colonial period, policing was provided by elected sheriffs and local militias.

That was BEFORE the American revolution, so I'm pretty sure the framers were aware of the idea and still felt it vitally important to protect the lay person's right to bear arms.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:40 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,752,932 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
No, the police are there to keep those in power in power and those who are ruled, ruled. Civilization and its police and military forces didn't originate to keep people safe and free from violence, but to raise the few over the many. That is why we have the second amendment, because our founders recognized that the police/military oppressed people in Europe. But our founders weren't willing to go so far as to abolish the police or military entirely.


In the United States it's quite clear what the police are for: the SCOTUS has ruled repeatedly since the early 19th century that police have no duty to protect individuals. The police are there to serve the state.

I don't know about the US, but the police is responsible for safety in every country I have lived so far.
I get the impression that in the US they often react when it is already too late. But also just like in Europe, i.e. in a preemptive protective way. When a woman gets attacked by her violent husband or a shopkeeper gets robbed, they call the police in the US as well, just like in Europe.

I don't share your view regarding the reason for the invention of a police force. And be honest, even in the US you would have no ghost of a chance against the police, actually in your country less than in any European country because the US police force is almost militarized these days.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:42 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,752,932 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
No, the police are there to keep those in power in power and those who are ruled, ruled. Civilization and its police and military forces didn't originate to keep people safe and free from violence, but to raise the few over the many. That is why we have the second amendment, because our founders recognized that the police/military oppressed people in Europe. But our founders weren't willing to go so far as to abolish the police or military entirely.


In the United States it's quite clear what the police are for: the SCOTUS has ruled repeatedly since the early 19th century that police have no duty to protect individuals. The police are there to serve the state.

I don't know about the US, but the police is responsible for safety in every country I have lived so far.
I get the impression that in the US they often react when it is already too late. But also just like in Europe, i.e. in a preemptive protective way. When a woman gets attacked by her violent husband or a shopkeeper gets robbed, they call the police in the US as well, just like in Europe.

I don't share your view regarding the reason for the invention of a police force. And be honest, even in the US you would have no ghost of a chance against the police, actually in your country less so than in any European country because the US police force is almost militarized these days.
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