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Old 01-29-2016, 02:20 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,500,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeastah View Post
I think what people mean when they say Europe isn't free like the US is because they're socialists. People in Europe look to and count on their government to take care of them. They always have.

Europe also doesn't believe in harsh punishments for criminals. There is no death penalty, no matter how heinous the crime. Another example of their softness towards crime is not allowing citizens to have pepper spray. If a juvi commits rape (in Sweden for example), they get off with as little as community service and monetary reparations. Even murderers walk after a few years in prison.


When you see it argued on CD, they're most likely referring to our 2nd amendment rights.
Well let's see what's wrong here.

People in Europe want their government to look after them; unlike the U.S. where at last count, 51% of the people are getting the benefit of some government handout or another.

"Europe doesn't believe in harsh punishment", whereas it was the U.S. in the most recent case in the news that established the precedent of Affluenza defence so a spoiled rich kid who killed four other teens while driving drunk could get probation only.

Have you forgotten the O.J Simpson trial where a murderer walked because a glove left out in the rain to shrink didn't fit during the stupid circus of a trial?

The rest of your post is simply a generalization of errors you've heard but not taken the time to study more carefully.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:57 PM
 
46,964 posts, read 26,011,859 times
Reputation: 29454
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Hunting. This is pretty obvious.
It is?

Quote:
Europe has a history of hunting being for the nobility and very wealthy only. And it remains restrictive and expensive to do so today.
My brother-in-law in Denmark is a machinist/metalworker. Very good at what he, but he's not wealthy by a long shot. And he hunts a lot. Deer, mostly, in Denmark - deer, moose and beaver in Sweden.

It's a very regulated activity where population density is a bit higher and there are considerable restrictions - most having to do with animal welfare and ensuring a healthy population - but it's a very popular activity.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:59 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 2,842,578 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
So - why does the US have lower social mobility than most other OECD countries?
What time period are you asking about? Are you stating that lower social mobility has always been the case? If not, you would have to determine when such social mobility began to lag behind other countries. You would have to determine whether that was a consistent pattern, etc., before you can answer that question.

Speculatively, I would say that the expansion and overreaching federal government has had an impact on social mobility. I would say that as more laws and regulations are enacted, the restriction of freedoms and liberties associated with said regulations and oppressive laws correlates with the diminished opportunities afforded to all classes of society.

Another obvious aspect of governmental overreach that has diminished social mobility involves the ever growing welfare state that has created a dependent class that has been ensnared in a system that removes the incentives to take the necessary risks required to even grasp the opportunity of earning upward mobility.

In the 60's, the initial welfare program had intentions of assisting women and children, but, in order to receive benefits, no work eligible male was allowed to reside in the same residence. As a result, the welfare system contributed to breaking up families (which impacted and continues to impact the minority communities the most) and keeping women and children in poverty and subjected to the dependency on the government.

Since the institution of the welfare state, the eligibility standards have expanded and that has expanded the dependent class and has resulted in individuals choosing the safety of governmental dependency over the risk/rewards of self reliance and the fortitude it takes to earn your way into upward mobility.

There are still millions of people who enter this country LEGALLY who still believe that the American Dream is obtainable. Those are the people who work 12-15 hours a day. Live in the cheapest place they can that is safe and healthy. They are the people who don't spend on iPhones or cable packages or new cars, etc., they work and save, work and save, work and save until they have achieved stability. They are the people who instill the importance of hard work and the importance of an education in their children. Those children are the ones who excel in school and go to college and earn advanced degrees and move their family up the ladder financially and socially.

Until those ethics of hard work, the value of education and the fact that you have to EARN your way by your own hard work and without expectations that anyone or any government is going to take care of you until you make it, I am sure that the ability of those in poverty to move up in social and economic status will continue to remain stagnant.

That does not mean that THE American Dream is dead. It just means that the entitlement and dependent class that government has created, no longer has the drive to obtain that Dream for themselves. They are not willing to put in the effort and forgo the dependency on the government in order to achieve what people who come to the US penniless and without the ability to even speak English can achieve, even in 2016.
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:05 PM
 
9,981 posts, read 8,596,541 times
Reputation: 5664
Certainly not every European country is the same.
Don't make the mistake of looking at laws and internet articles
and taking them for granted to be all true in reality.
There is still a lot of differences in the EU.
I believe American freedoms are overrated and "European" un-freedoms
are exaggerated, especially in English-language articles aimed at Americans.
I've heard a lot of good things about day to day life in European countries
from people who lived/live there that really make me wonder if the brighter
future is there instead. Luckily I do have an option to become an Italian citizen
and I am considering it more seriously lately.
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:14 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,507,138 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
It is?

My brother-in-law in Denmark is a machinist/metalworker. Very good at what he, but he's not wealthy by a long shot. And he hunts a lot. Deer, mostly, in Denmark - deer, moose and beaver in Sweden.

It's a very regulated activity where population density is a bit higher and there are considerable restrictions - most having to do with animal welfare and ensuring a healthy population - but it's a very popular activity.

Try doing that in Germany or the UK. And while Scandinavia is a bit better than much of Europe on hunting, I can see from a quick read ( http://www.face.eu/sites/default/files/denmark_en_2.pdf ) that there's still a lease system for the right to hunt in Denmark. And insurance requirements. Which will put it out of reach of people who could hunt in the U.S. Did your brother in law inherit some property or know someone with some property well?
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
1,248 posts, read 824,578 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
I think generally, right wingers think along the lines of "If I ever become rich one day, I want x freedoms."

Whereas those on the left, including in Europe, tend to think "If I ever lose my job, have an accident, or some other worst case scenario happens, I want my family and I to be free from fear and worrying about death or suffering, etc".
Yes, that is how it is.

I would add that American right-wingers usually look towards the past, towards the "good old days" and try to preserve as much as possible from the previous centuries. Now, European right-wingers, of which I am one (I don't really believe in "wings" though) also try to preserve the best from the past, but also recognize the need to adapt to a changing world.
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:29 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 2,842,578 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norne View Post
Yes, that is how it is.

I would add that American right-wingers usually look towards the past, towards the "good old days" and try to preserve as much as possible from the previous centuries. Now, European right-wingers, of which I am one (I don't really believe in "wings" though) also try to preserve the best from the past, but also recognize the need to adapt to a changing world.
Don't state your opinion as fact. You don't even live in this country, so who are you to pass judgment on the beliefs of conservatives in the US. Speak for yourself and we will do the same. Thank you very much.
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:40 PM
 
9,694 posts, read 7,398,193 times
Reputation: 9931
what gets me is , so many people that think every body in the world are entitled to the freedoms of the constitution, even though they will never set foot on American property
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,302 posts, read 2,357,140 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode View Post
Do you know it to be any different in European countries?
The U.S. and Europe really aren't that different anymore. Both have governments that take a lot in taxes, regulate whatever they can, and make more and more laws.

It used to be different, but people in the U.S. have, IMO, become sort of domesticated. The spirit of what the country was founded upon is gone in most citizens. You can see it in how we celebrate Independence Day - where the founders rebelled against the King and declared that they were free men who didn't recognize his right to rule them - but if the founders were around today they'd be called terrorists and traitors, and mocked for their attitude. They'd be told to shut up and quit their whining.
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Old 01-29-2016, 04:24 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 2,842,578 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
what gets me is , so many people that think every body in the world are entitled to the freedoms of the constitution, even though they will never set foot on American property
What gets me is that people in the country have no concept of how precious the Constitution is and how much liberty and freedom we have already lost and that once we have lost it, there is no where else to go and the only way to recover it is by living through decades of tyranny and darkness. Not fear mongering or hyperbolizing, just reporting an historical reality.
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