Supreme Court Deals Blow to Obama’s Efforts to Regulate Coal Emissions

[dv1033]

It's predicted that natural gas will grow the most out of fossil fuels globally in the next several decades. Coal will still increase but it's rate of increase will slow as the world continues to industrializes.

[thecoalman]

I going to need to make correction on this again. What I originally said was this:

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Vermont. yes? In 2013 Vermont's electric rate was about 45% more than the national average. About double the cost of Wyoming, Kentucky, Utah, West Virginia.....

State Electricity Profiles - Energy Information Administration

What screwed me up was you incorrectly using the information I provided which I should have caught:

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

At 50 percent higher (your claim) that means a $20 light bill in your WY example would be $30 in VT. That's hardly going to cause much hurt to the average person.

In 2013 Vermont's electric rates were about 50% higher than the national average, they were about 100% higher than Wyoming.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Since you are using this reference specifically what in this study indicates that their findings is caused by coal?

Cleaner states are healthier. The least healthy states in America are in the Midwest and southeast where environmental laws are lax and air and water pollution is a widespread problem. Coal is a major contributor to that. You think it's mere coincidence that the map I linked to and a map of state use of coal are quite similar?


Take this for example:


"An EPA regulation that requires states to reduce power plant emissions that pollute other states, along with new standards that will reduce mercury and air toxics emissions beginning in 2015, may help. The EPA estimates that, in Connecticut alone, the new mercury and toxics standards will prevent up to 90 premature deaths and create up to $750 million in health benefits in 2016."


Coal-Fired Power Plants Virtually Extinct in New England - Scientific American


And that's in a state that is a low coal use state. Imagine what cutting that coal pollution would do for states like Kentucky.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

You think it's mere coincidence that the map I linked to and a map of state use of coal are quite similar?

It's your reference, you show me. That said taking a quick glance at the methodology this uses a wide array variables such as educational attainment for example.

Such studies can easily be skewed when using many variables. Presumably you live in a rural area? Suppose we have two identical car accidents, you are involved in one in your area and someone else is involved in one in the city. You are more likely to die from injuries. It's not because of poor health care, it's because it takes 30 minutes for the emergency personnel to get there and another hour to get you to the hospital.

Take this for example:


"An EPA regulation that requires states to reduce power plant emissions that pollute other states, along with new standards that will reduce mercury and air toxics emissions beginning in 2015, may help. The EPA estimates that, in Connecticut alone, the new mercury and toxics standards will prevent up to 90 premature deaths and create up to $750 million in health benefits in 2016."

I'll explain to you how they arrive at these figures. As you can imagine attain reliable hard data for something like this is very difficult if not impossible.

Setting that aside the methodology used for this treats every particle of pollution equally as dangerous. Suppose we do a study and have 100 people jump off a 40 foot ladder and 90 of them die. From that we assume that for every 4000 feet a population is to fall 90 will die. When 1000 people jump off a 4 foot ladder 90 of them will die, if 4000 people jump off a 1 foot ladder 90 will die. When millions jump off a infinitesimally small ladder 90 are still going to die.

When person in Vermont dies of heart attack a small percentage of their death is attributed to coal pollution. They could be hundreds of miles from the nearest coal plant sitting in lazy boy all day eating chicken wings for breakfast lunch and dinner.... swilling down a case of beer and smoking 4 packs of cigarettes a day. Part of their death will be blamed on coal pollution using this methodology.