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Saudi Arabia wants to build a oil & gas pipeline direct to Europe.
But Syria is in the way.
Putin does not want pipeline. Would hurt his oil sales to Europe
Assad is Russia's ally
Obama/Hillary/Kerry/Cameron want pipeline. Want to pull Putin's teeth.
Hence USA/UK "coalition" for regime change in Syria. But...
Cameron got shot down by Parliament. Had to pull out of alliance.
Obama afraid to take stand without "cover" of coalition.
Obama also afraid of direct military confrontation with Syria's allies, Russia.
Instead Obama fought "nice" war. Drop bombs with warnings. Nothing accomplished.
Hence we are left with stalemate.
The pipeline talk is nonsense. There are several ways to run a pipeline to Europe without going through Syria. Even at that, never heard anyone approach Syria about running pipelines. This is just some 1000 year old BS between groups there that we are involved in.
Russia has made it very clear why they are there, they stated their concerns about destabilizing countries and terrorism to Robert Gates during the Libyan issue, and they carried through with their concerns in Syria; Russia does not want a radical, Islamic government near their border. They do not even like Assad, it is not like they are providing him with advanced weapons or anything, they could easily provide him with hundreds of advanced heavy weapons if they wanted to.
The US has only one strategy, get rid of Assad, then that will open the door for the US to back one group to their liking and intervene militarily against every other group.
The pipeline talk is nonsense. There are several ways to run a pipeline to Europe without going through Syria. Even at that, never heard anyone approach Syria about running pipelines. This is just some 1000 year old BS between groups there that we are involved in.
Russia has made it very clear why they are there, they stated their concerns about destabilizing countries and terrorism to Robert Gates during the Libyan issue, and they carried through with their concerns in Syria; Russia does not want a radical, Islamic government near their border. They do not even like Assad, it is not like they are providing him with advanced weapons or anything, they could easily provide him with hundreds of advanced heavy weapons if they wanted to.
The US has only one strategy, get rid of Assad, then that will open the door for the US to back one group to their liking and intervene militarily against every other group.
Location: Big Island of Hawaii & HOT BuOYS Sailing Vessel
5,277 posts, read 2,799,876 times
Reputation: 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
I don't think you've been paying attention. Qatar is something of a friend to Iran.
Iran could have always bombarded US troops in Qatar, Bahrain, or Iraq at any time, if they had wanted to.
I am not concerned about Iran bombing Qatar. It is the US base in Qatar I see at risk the more the US engages against Iranian supported elements within Syria.
Location: Big Island of Hawaii & HOT BuOYS Sailing Vessel
5,277 posts, read 2,799,876 times
Reputation: 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty
It's not even that complicated.
Saudi Arabia wants to build a oil & gas pipeline direct to Europe.
But Syria is in the way.
Putin does not want pipeline. Would hurt his oil sales to Europe
Assad is Russia's ally
Obama/Hillary/Kerry/Cameron want pipeline. Want to pull Putin's teeth.
Hence USA/UK "coalition" for regime change in Syria. But...
Cameron got shot down by Parliament. Had to pull out of alliance.
Obama afraid to take stand without "cover" of coalition.
Obama also afraid of direct military confrontation with Syria's allies, Russia.
Instead Obama fought "nice" war. Drop bombs with warnings. Nothing accomplished.
Hence we are left with stalemate.
"Two significant pipeline proposals have been made. One by Qatar in 2009, that would run from Qatar through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey and into Europe. The other by Iran in 2011, which would run from Iran, through Iraq, across Syria to its Tartous port and across the Mediterranean to Europe.
Russia holds the strategic port of Tartous in Syria. Tartous is a Russian naval base but also has significant pipeline access and infrastructure.
In 2009, Qatar was rebuffed by Syria for their pipeline proposal that would have allowed Qatar access to the EU market."
To understand more about how pipelines and Russian naval access and control of EU market in being sole supplier for a $1 billion / Day market is part of the equation see:
Location: Big Island of Hawaii & HOT BuOYS Sailing Vessel
5,277 posts, read 2,799,876 times
Reputation: 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
The pipeline talk is nonsense. There are several ways to run a pipeline to Europe without going through Syria. Even at that, never heard anyone approach Syria about running pipelines. This is just some 1000 year old BS between groups there that we are involved in.
Russia has made it very clear why they are there, they stated their concerns about destabilizing countries and terrorism to Robert Gates during the Libyan issue, and they carried through with their concerns in Syria; Russia does not want a radical, Islamic government near their border. They do not even like Assad, it is not like they are providing him with advanced weapons or anything, they could easily provide him with hundreds of advanced heavy weapons if they wanted to.
The US has only one strategy, get rid of Assad, then that will open the door for the US to back one group to their liking and intervene militarily against every other group.
"Failed pipeline bidder Qatar is believed to have funded anti-Assad rebel groups by $3 billion between 2011 and 2013. Saudi Arabia has also been accused of funding the terrorist group."
Is this whole civil war over which country can run a pipeline?
See this article for competing pipeline proposals.
"Two significant pipeline proposals have been made. One by Qatar in 2009, that would run from Qatar through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey and into Europe. The other by Iran in 2011, which would run from Iran, through Iraq, across Syria to its Tartous port and across the Mediterranean to Europe.
Russia holds the strategic port of Tartous in Syria. Tartous is a Russian naval base but also has significant pipeline access and infrastructure.
In 2009, Qatar was rebuffed by Syria for their pipeline proposal that would have allowed Qatar access to the EU market."
To understand more about how pipelines and Russian naval access and control of EU market in being sole supplier for a $1 billion / Day market is part of the equation see:
The article, though nice, does not really provide any reference, such as; what was the deal Qatar offered to Syria for a pipeline? Even the DAPL could be spun to look like the US rejected a pipeline, and then throw some geopolitical speak into it.
Russia wants to bypass Ukraine because Ukraine has been a PITA for 20 years with the transit to Europe, up to the point of out right stealing.
Again, a pipeline does not need to go through Syria to reach Europe. More convenient maybe, but it is hardly the only route for one to go. They could lay one up through Iraq to Turkey, but I guess Iraq did not turn out to be the friend? So who is to say Syria will? Plus the place will be so damn unstable for who knows how long, the pipeline is a dream.
"Failed pipeline bidder Qatar is believed to have funded anti-Assad rebel groups by $3 billion between 2011 and 2013. Saudi Arabia has also been accused of funding the terrorist group."
Is this whole civil war over which country can run a pipeline?
See this article for competing pipeline proposals.
See my post above. It makes no sense and the article, like the other, lacks information like; what kind of deal was proposed to Syria?
Also, if Iraq did not turn out to be a reliable pipeline partner, somehow Syria will? And exactly how will anything ever be stabilized in any time to even start a pipeline? Qatar can sell gas by tanker if they want, just as the article demonstrates they get gas to Asia. Plus, Europe has invested heavily into Russian gas projects, so it does not make sense that they would short change themselves to magically start accepting gas from Qatar after investing billions for gas from Russia, they would lose financially in a big way.
I think the entire pipeline thing is just BS, and while it may be a wish, I doubt it was an influential factor in the affairs there. This is just some 1000 year old BS that has been occurring before the need of oil and gas existed. This is the same conflicts during the Ottoman Empire, the reason they kept troop rotations as they did, and the same constant conflict that has erupted throughout the regions for the last 1000 years. All they do now is add a dash of modernity to it.
I am not concerned about Iran bombing Qatar. It is the US base in Qatar I see at risk the more the US engages against Iranian supported elements within Syria.
First, the US base in Qatar is not a "US" base. It's the sovereign territory of Qatar and the primary base where US forces are located, Al-Udeid Air Base, is also the primary base for the Air Force of Qatar. Iran can't bombard US forces without simultaneously bombarding Qatar sovereign territory and destroying Qatar Air Force facilities, equipment, and probably killing Qatar citizens.
The naval base in Bahrain is a far easier target, and it's in a country that Iran cares nothing for.
First air combat kill by a US aircraft since the 90's. Appears the Syrian plane was an 40 year old Russian bomber. Not much of a match.
vs a fa-18, put into service in 1983. A multi-role plane, just as the su-22 is. So not much of a match, but not because we used a brand new plane with super advanced technology.
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