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I think a sellout is someone who compromises their passion solely for money. Just as an example, the people who are against raising the minimum wage like yourself who say if McDonalds paid $15.00/hr that they would quit their current jobs and work at McDonalds are sellouts; because clearly their passion is to work at McDonalds, but they forego that for $$$ at whatever job they do now, which by their logic is not their passion
See how that works?
Many people who are against $15/hr minimum wage by 2020 do not take into account how it will massively improve the bargaining power for the bottom 50% of the income scale of the American workers to improve their wages. It is just portrayed in corporate media as a huge increase for a tiny number of workers (fast food workers) and they play on people's emotions.
True, again, I'm a middle of the road guy politically speaking, and I think unfortunately we need some level of welfare, it just needs to be managed, it's supposed to be a stopgap measure to help get people back on their feet, I don't think it was ever intended to be a lifestyle.
It's the perfect "damn if you do, damn if you don't" type of situation.
We can't just go back 200 years and have people dying of hunger in the streets.
We also can't have generations upon generations of idle, poorly educated, fast reproducing welfare recipients whose mentality is completely skewed into "someone owes me a living" territory. This is one sure way to turn the society into a nightmare.
This is a logical fallacy. First of all, the minimum wage would apply to all work. No one would make less than $15 by 2020. Second, the people who are currently making $15 will massively improve their bargaining power. "socialist countries" went down to ruin? Are you talking about Australia and Denmark? Plenty of countries have much higher effective minimum wage than America and there is no shortage of skilled labor. You make it sound like skilled labor employers are banned from offering higher wages, which they will when employees can point to what others make and threaten to leave. Studies show that a raise in the minimum wage increase the wages of ten times as many workers as the people at the bottom. It lifts all boats.
While you keep comparing things to places like Denmark you fail to discuss their tax structure or the fact that their population pales in size in comparison to the U.S..
Care to address what they pay out for their "wonderful" benefits?
I still am against raising the minimum wages to $15.00. I try to be cool to everybody and help people out as much as I can. But, raising the wages is a bad idea. Like mentioned above, prices will go up on all products. Furthermore; I believe people can try to go to college or further their education if they want a higher paying job.
While you keep comparing things to places like Denmark you fail to discuss their tax structure or the fact that their population pales in size in comparison to the U.S..
Care to address what they pay out for their "wonderful" benefits?
So when people talk about Venezuela, a third world corrupt dictatorship, and how awful it is, this is somehow relevant to the US and portrayed as what would happen if we increase the minimum wage and expand Medicare and Social Security (aka "socialism"). But when people bring up developed social democratic countries and our closest allies, then people claim they are not relevant to the US.
So when people talk about Venezuela, a third world corrupt dictatorship, and how awful it is, this is somehow relevant to the US and portrayed as what would happen if we increase the minimum wage and expand Medicare and Social Security (aka "socialism"). But when people bring up developed social democratic countries and our closest allies, then people claim they are not relevant to the US.
I'm not "they" or "people" and so I cannot speak for them. What I can and did speak to is what would have to happen in order for the U.S. to mimic the system you apparently admire and want to head towards. When you raise minimum wage it will raise costs/prices in EVERY sector which will raise prices to the end user as the corporations/business owners will NOT take a profit cut.
As for the rest? Well, if you think everyone will agree to a 75% + tax rate in order to give cradle to grave benefits then maybe it'd happen but I don't believe that's realistic in the U.S. nor do I believe that those in power in the various industries involved would be willing to surrender their power peacefully.
You are missing the point. People can take courses later and qualify for university if they want. We are going off topic here though.
I don't think that's how it works in those countries, and you have yet to show that it is. But you're right, it's off topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
There is not a "$15/hr for fast food workers". Its a $15 minimum wage by 2020 for all workers. Huge difference. The people currently making $15/hr will greatly improve their bargaining power and see their wages go up substantially.
There have been many iterations of this $15/hr issue. I showed you that the health care workers that I referenced don't make that NOW!
The only ones who have brought up these health care workers are MJJersey and I (politics makes strange bedfellows). The rest of you are talking about fast food workers, truck drivers, etc.
I don't think the general public knows how little these workers are paid. I'd rather advocate for them to make more money. After all, their jobs require some skill and entail a lot of responsibility, and they get a lot of flak. Those are the workers, for the most part, that people complain about when they say "that 'nurse' blah, blah, blah". They are the front line health care providers.
I would like to know where you got your crystal ball. I want one just like it; it makes the future sound great!
I'm not "they" or "people" and so I cannot speak for them. What I can and did speak to is what would have to happen in order for the U.S. to mimic the system you apparently admire and want to head towards. When you raise minimum wage it will raise costs/prices in EVERY sector which will raise prices to the end user as the corporations/business owners will NOT take a profit cut.
As for the rest? Well, if you think everyone will agree to a 75% + tax rate in order to give cradle to grave benefits then maybe it'd happen but I don't believe that's realistic in the U.S. nor do I believe that those in power in the various industries involved would be willing to surrender their power peacefully.
Its completely fair to point to other examples than Venezuela as a counterweight to those people who believe a corrupt third world dictatorship is more relevant as a comparison than our closest allies and developed countries.
There is no proof that there were massive price increases and huge economic problems as a result of the doubling of the minimum wage from the late 1940s to 1950. Studies show the same thing. Whenever the minimum wage is increased, it benefits the workers and the scare mongering doesnt materialize. In 1968, the minimum wage was the equivalent of $11. Since then, there has been a gradual erosion of the minimum wage, prices have increased substantially and continue to increase even as the value of the minimum wage continue to decline every month and every year. The Big Mac in America is now very close to the most expensive in the world, yet workers make starvation wages:
Labor costs are just a small part of the overall costs for businesses. Thats why prices are so high in America relative to other countries with much higher effective minimum wage and benefits. And thats why this idea of skyrocketing prices as a result of minimum wage increases is a myth.
Not everyone on the right agreed to social security or Medicare either. Not by any means. Same with minimum wage. There has always been relentless opposition from the ruling donor class to policies that benefit the people. Listen to JFK here and hear how similar the situation is then and now:
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